How I was misdiagnosed/mistreated at the Arya Vidya Chikitsalayam (AVP) Hospital in Coimbatore (this is Ayurveda today, beware)

I am making this post as a warning and to hopefully unveil a little more truth of how things really are in the world of Ayurveda in India as I have written about in the past on this blog. The public has no real depth of knowledge of Ayurveda and in that cannot have any discernment when it comes to going thru treatments blindly trusting that someone is a doctor in India or anywhere actually. How can you know without having the education? This is just the ugly truth of it. Your left in the hands of doctors (or practitioner) who you are giving your trust that they are qualified and have your best interest in mind. It is kind of like taking your automobile into a garage to be fixed. If you have no idea about what is wrong with it, the mechanics are able to do anything they want. How are you to know? We all have heard stories about things like that, right?

The other reason to write this post, and more importantly, is to have the victim heard and validated instead of his experience being turned into his own fabricated story and then just living a trauma that he has to endure.
Unfortunately, I have my own experiences of incredibly mismanaged, misdiagnosed, and incorrectly done treatments (panchakarma) and even have diseases and results that have been created due to them so I myself resonate with this individual’s experience. In the end, Ayurveda is actually very dangerous. In the sections on disease causation in all of the classical texts, in most diseases, one of the causations is incorrect panchakarma treatments. 

Something is very troubling with the world of healing/spirituality/the Indian sciences and their practice today. The education of them in India is poor as well as the superficiality in sales to the ‘certified to practice” in foreign countries today. I am including yoga in this as well. I am speaking to not only the very very obvious (but no one questioning it for a second) idea that you can just show up for a 200 hour yoga teacher certification for thousands of dollars and then you are a yoga teacher without any real experience of the knowledge or the path and then those people are then creating certifications for the even more naive to become teachers all leading to the ‘teacher’ left to their own devices to flounder in a sea of abysmal opinions and information/disinformation to pick what they like to then teach a Western exercise class with self-help vibes and woo-woo poetic non-descript language woven into them. I am also speaking to the trouble in the Ayurveda world where uneducated practitioners create products not having any education as to how products are made and willy nilly throwing together herbs like in Western herbology which is not Ayurveda or creating products that are not even Ayurvedic or the very troubling fact that most medicines in India in Ayurveda are of such low quality and cutting corners to reduce cost is the main way or adding all sorts of fillers and preservatives when in fact none of this is actually Ayurveda. The education even in India for the BAMS which is the first level of doctorate is mainly just allopathy as well as the syllabus has been reduced over the decades which puts the student in the place of not even knowing what ayurveda is when they are an ayurveda doctor…. I have witnessed this all personally over and over in living in India. There is even a full college in Badami, Karnataka that is empty. No one actually attends but the college has full students…. on paper. This is what is called doctor on paper there. This is commonly known and done. EVERY college and University in India has these doctors on paper. Cheating and lying is the way of life there. I can go on with different parts of all of this that are so very troubling but the most severe of it all is the outcome, the results of this. What happens to the individual which puts their trust into a quack doctor? With the deterioration of Ayurveda today, we see things like AVP making huge strides to sell their Ayurveda products (medicines not meant for allopathic symptomatic use) in foreign countries at excessively high costs…. it has become only about making money. This is only one example and it is in no way limited to AVP. 
All of this is very sad and harmful. But no one wants to speak about it… that knows about it. Instead in India, they continue to put garlands around the necks of each other promoting each other or as my teacher put it, “Snakes hide snakes.”

The individual that is victimized in the outcome of any of this is then to remain silent. There are no ears to hear them. The naive foreigners and in the Western ‘spiritual’ world you are blackballed if you raise any attention to this stuff and are deemed “negative”. We can see this as an example in the new film on Bikram Choudary This whole story has taken over a decade to finally come out yet Bikram is free as a bird and still teaching yoga and has supposedly absconded from all responsibility to different countries. Yet, there is still a huge following of teachers of hot yoga that do not even have any clue at all to even correlate that the ‘yoga’ classes they are teaching are actually disease forming due to the very lack of education of asana and what is considered to be a teacher. I could make a list of the fake gurus that have made the headlines as well as the gurus that are still out there that naive people follow. The thing is this, the victim…. they are not heard or seen if they speak up at all. In fact, what is the normal result is that they are blacklisted and outcasted and turned upon by the devotees or the students of the guru. Watch the film on Bikram, it is all said in there but this is not limited to Bikram but in the entirety of the modern spirituality linked movement and modalities out there today. Blind and naive Westerners start to follow someone that others think is a Guru. Sheep. What is going on with Bikram is actually throughout all of Modern Yoga and its cults and teachers. I have witnessed this personally for decades. In Ayurveda, it is the same, the doctor turns words around (blatantly lies to cover their ass) to say that the treatments were correct or that the individual does not know enough to be able to understand and a host of other manipulative mannerisms to only not take responsibility. (That is India) This leaves the individual broken and betrayed and with further complications of their disease if not new diseases created by the improper treatments……if they have the awareness to even realize the correlation of their new found disease being created by inproper treatment. 

I myself, in all honesty, do not have any place to refer people to go for proper Ayurveda treatments. This is just the truth of it. Not with any conscience can I knowing what is really going on with Ayurveda in India, from living behind the scenes for a decade. Yet, everyone and their mother has the ‘authentic’ teacher or ‘my teacher is not that, they are the real thing’ is the normally said phrases in any conversation about this. There are many levels to all of this and I have written several other blog posts mentioning many of them.

So with all of that said as a pretext, the following below is the article written by the individual about their experience at Arya Vidya Chikitsalayam in Coimbatore. I too have been there with a traveling partner for treatments and both of us were also misdiagnosed as well. The treatments, I would say, were superbly done but the knowledge of the doctors was incredibly poor. What is the point of wrong treatments even if they are quality? My friend endured so much joint pain increasing over the period of 5 weeks of treatment. Afterward, when we returned to Bangalore I ran to the Ayurveda pharmacy and got the appropriate Ayurveda medicines for her and her pain was gone within a couple days. 

 

The thing I find the most troubling with the following is that this individual was not even diagnosed and was put directly into treatments. Then afterward, the president of AVP, who is the son of the man who created AVP, denies that anything was done improperly. This is so very very obvious to even anyone without the knowledge of Ayurveda. You would not go into any regular doctor and they just give you drugs without a proper diagnosis first.

 

The following is from Erik.

How I was mistreated at the Arya Vidya Chikitsalayam (AVP) Hospital in Coimbatore

Dear readers of this blog,

My name is Erik and I live in the Netherlands. Back in the fall of 2017 I went to Coimbatore, India to “Saranya” which is a overflow hospital of AVP to get 6 weeks of panchakarma. This year (2019) I went back for a second try consisting of 5 weeks in total and I would like to share my story with you.

This is not just a story it is the truth of my own experience. Everything I write here is truthful. I can back all of it up with audio, lots of audio recordings I took in this years time while I was there doing treatments. I also have pictures that I made from all of the medical files that I saw. For certain privacy reasons I’m not going to show them here but I will send them to the institutions that will be mentioned later in the letter that I wrote to the staff at this hospital.

As you hopefully know by now, this blog (trueayurveda.wordpress.com) is filled with great knowledge of how the world works and if you have happened to talk to Brad you would also have heard his personal experiences. Today, I have such a story to share with the public. I will not be withholding any names as I intend to fully expose this place for what it is.

The hospital I stayed at is quite famous in India and there are many locations spread throughout the country of which I have been to 2 such locations. For a better understanding I will now give all the different names of this hospital of which it is known under for the past 75 years;

  • AVP
  • Arya Vaidya Pharmacy
  • CBE
  • AVT
  • Arya Vaidya Chikitsalayam
  • Arya Vaidya Chikitsalayam and Research Institute
  • AVCRI
  • The Ayurvedic Trust

And these are their main websites. They do have lots more:

It is now run by P.R. Krishnakumar who is the son of the founder.

In 2017, I was at the location called Saranya which is in Navakkarai, Coimbatore and in 2019, I was at the main location which is also in Coimbatore.

The address is 136-137, Trichy Road, Ramanathapuram, Coimbatore – 641045.

I was treated by many different doctors at both locations here is a list of those doctors:

  • Priya
  • Keshavan
  • Tanusja
  • K.G. Raveendran (who is one of the senior doctors and quite famous)
  • Jishnu
  • Adhina
  • Sungheeta
  • And many more.

I have spoken about complaints with Mr. Krishnakumar, Mr. Sukumeren (the manager), Mr. A. Raveendran (general manager), Dr. S. Kumar, Ms. Parvatih and a couple of others.

Now follows my very negative experience.

I was diagnosed in my own country with a small parathyroid benign growth and chronic kidney stones for the past 8 years. Besides that, I was diagnosed in Ayurveda as having a very high vata and with these came many other complaints. I was advised to do panchakarma so I went to look for a real authentic ayurvedic hospital in India. I am a man who is 190 cm tall and weight somewhere around 60 kg so I’m tall land very skinny, my bones are sticking out everywhere, this also makes me very weak.

In 2017, I was diagnosed at the Saranya location of the AVP hospital chain by Dr. K.G. Raveendran who is the senior doctor and who has been there famous doctor for a very long time. My 2 diseases are of opposing nature so I was advised to get diagnosed by this senior doctor. He provided me a prescription and treatments and I took it for 6 weeks, then when I went home, I took another 3 months of these medications. While I was going thru treatments there, after 4 weeks of heavy oiling they did purgation and since I am always constipated my entire digestion just froze up after those medicines. It made half of my problems worse and the other problems they said that they were supposed to get rid of also failed at doing this.

After a day they decided to do another purgation which also failed, then they gave me a super dose that failed again. That’s 3 times and they didn’t know what to do next. All of this made me so sick. With every new purgation they did I felt sicker and sicker. Then they decided to give me a basti which cleaned out the last part of my colon, yet not the full 3 purgations so I was stuck with that inside me for a long time. After that they gave me treatments to build up my body, to give me strength and vigor, this was the only thing that worked. However, the main treatment of why I came to do panchakarma failed. The entire time I just accepted everything because I didn’t know better. When I went back home and I continued with the medications and after that was done, I felt so much worse than when I went to India. It took me almost 2 years to get back to a sort of ‘normal’ living. When I was home I could not even walk, my hips and legs were very weak because I lost so much weight. I went back to the hospital in my country and got some CT scans and X-rays and my parathyroid gland was now a little bit bigger and I got more frequent kidney stones and also much bigger ones after treatments there. During my entire 3 months of taking medications at home, I was getting sicker and weaker so I started to email Saranya but nobody ever responded. I think I tried 8 different email addresses. It was only after 1.5 years that somebody responded when I talked about going back to the hospital for a second time. No aftercare was provided and they only responded when I talked about money. This was the time that alarm bells should have been going on in my mind, yet I gave them the benefit of the doubt because I was so hopeless at the time with nowhere to turn.

Two years later (2019), I went back again with the thought that they would now know why it didn’t work during the first visit. I tried to send them all of my new medical information, CT scan, X-ray, blood work, etc. and still I could not get any answer from them. They only replied about booking a room again. So I went along with it.

When I returned to AVP again this time for 5 weeks instead of 6. Here is what happened.

Day 1
I arrived at 2 PM and nobody was there, no water, nothing. 4 PM I found water and suddenly a doctor shows up (if memory serves it was Dr. Priya, although she says she wasn’t there) then the doctors says, “hi, in 15 minutes you have a treatment and here are your medications please take them now” and she walks out. Then after almost throwing up because of the bitter medications, I go for treatments. This went on for 2.5 weeks and then it dawned on me that ‘wait a minute’ I was never diagnosed so how could they know what kind of medications to give me on day 1?

After a lot of thinking I realized I never even got an intake with any doctor, so I tried to ask a bunch of questions to different doctors but nobody could seem to answer any of them. It was as if I was in the twilight zone. At the end of week 3 I started to feel weaker because I lost a lot of weight (every week 1.2 kg, keep in mind I was already very light and weak). I went on my phone and searched for my old medical files from 2 years ago and I noticed that they just gave me the same medications and treatments. So, from day 1 I was given the wrong medicines, the same stuff that made me sicker during my first visit. Then I warned the doctors about how this purgation that they now wanted to do on me would fail and make me sicker as was the case as 2 years ago and all they said is don’t worry, it will be ok. I gave them my trust one more time and you can guess what happened next? Of course, it failed for the fourth time and they just seemed like nothing was wrong. But things where sooooooooo wrong with me then and I lost all hope and trust in them and I said, “NO!!! you are not going to do another purgation on me, as a matter of fact, I am not going to take any medications or treatments!” and they didn’t understand why. They looked at me like I was crazy for standing up for myself. I was so sick, sad, confused, angry, and arrogant. I decided to play doctor for myself, I started to tell them how to do their job. After having a good conversation with Brad, I let them back in again after 2 days and all they did then was trying to clean up the mess that they had made.

What had happened is that they just copied what was done to me 2 years prior without any thought or new diagnosis or intake and they removed 2 medications from the list and gave me that on day 1. As if I am the same person as 2 years ago. In the end, they made me even sicker and now I am still trying to recovering from that. FOR A SECOND TIME!

The above is just a short summary without any detail, there is much more that is messed up with this place. I feel it is my duty to expose all of these things and that is what I am about to do right now. So, sit tight.

If you have read this blog you will undoubtedly have read Brad explaining about the messed-up stuff that is going on with what they call yoga, Ayurveda and what not. These 2 experiences really have confirmed everything for me that Brad has written on this blog.

There might be some people in India who are genuine but I think it is so rare and almost impossible to find.

The second-year, I was not diagnosed on the first day, it took 3 weeks of treatments and me complaining before it a diagnosis was done instead of just copying what was done the previous treatment. I insisted for 3 days to get diagnosed then finally I was diagnosed by the same doctor as the previous visit, Dr. K.G. Raveendran.

I audio recorded everything so I can prove that what I am stating right now is the truth.

Dr. K.G. Raveendran said, “I had not received any email from you in 2 years.” Dr. Priya told me that she had sent all of my CAT scan results, blood work and X-rays to him. He had still not received anything when I went to meet him for the diagnosis. Dr. Priya lied about that. I was given 2 files from my attending Dr. Adina which I was supposed to give to Dr. Raveendran so he could diagnose me based upon them. It should contain my current medical information. They would have had to take it from the medical history of the previous visit 2 years back because there was no intake done before treatments since the first day arriving. They somehow had created this form and it seems to have been falsified by Dr. Tanusja. I never spoke to her ever and somehow, she wrote a fake intake form with information from me which was mostly incorrect. The form says “I have no allergies”, actually I do have allergies, “I am well build”, actually I am skinny, underweight and emaciated. From the looks of it she took parts from an intake of 2 years ago, parts were just made up and parts were later added in from daily visits that the doctors do every day and write it down on a daily progress report. So, she lied and also falsified medical information.

Then the second piece of paper contained my medications which were just a copy of 2 years ago minus 2 medications. When I went to talk to Dr. K.G Raveendran, he said, “You are right. All of these medicines are wrong and I need to give you a different prescription.” All of this was after I explained to him that he cannot read the intake file which I handed to him because it was all lies. He then said “ok, I will not” and he asked me to explain my problems.

I previously wrote 20 questions very detailed and then I recording him so I wanted a confession because I thought that he didn’t know what they were doing because all doctors said it is him who prescribed the same stuff for you this year just as 2 years ago. After a good talk with him, I understood that every doctor at the hospital is just lying and covering his or her own ass. Now more than 1 month of being back home I have noticed that this is in the whole of India, they will lie and cheat you because it is how things work there.

He explained the situation and why I never was diagnosed. He said that he did not work there anymore because he was 2 hours removed from his own clinic now and the doctors at AVP called him and asked for his advice from a far distance only, but how can he give advice to doctors about prescriptions if he has not seen the patient in 2 years nor talked to him and also never was given any medical information and records that I had sent. How can a doctor diagnose a patient in this condition? It is impossible! so they just went along with the same treatment given previously. (medical negligence)

Then when I went back to the hospital, I tried to figure out who was responsible for all of this and you know what, after 5 weeks there I still don’t know. I do know that these doctors obviously don’t care about a patient’s health and only care about themselves and this will become clearer towards the end of this blogpost.

Dr. Priya who lied before, she told me in the first week that my kidney stones will be removed 100% guaranteed somewhere between treatments, after a few weeks all of the other doctors told me that it is impossible. They have to come out on their own.

I asked Dr. Adina to give me my old patient records because I wanted to know what went wrong. She said ok, I will give them to you. As of today, I have never received anything.

I asked her why this has happened all over again and who is my head doctor. After many days of just walking out of the room, playing with their phones, changing the conversation (basically acting like little children) I asked to speak to a supervisor, a head doctor. After a week of hearing different stories of who that person was they finally agreed that it was Dr. Sangheeta and Dr. Tanusja, who falsified my intake form. I asked to meet with them. She said that is fine I will ask them to come. As of today, I have never spoken to any of them. Dr. Adina and Dr. Jishnoe were lying constantly.

These doctors have no feeling of responsibility and are playing with the health of their patients.

The new prescription from Dr. K.G. Raveendran said to do this treatment for 3 days and get back to me and I will adjust it if it doesn’t produce good results for you in 3 days. After 4 days I emailed him. After a week his assistant responded by saying I have given all of your emails to the doctor and he will let the other doctors know what to do next and that was that. As of today, more than 1.5 months later, I have never received an email from him regarding the adjustments for my medications, nor did any doctor change it. He just ignored me the entire time and even when these new medications were making my memory problems worse.

During my last week at the hospital, I said “I quit with everything I just want food and sleep and then I’m going home.” They didn’t understand. But after all of the trouble that I was giving them after they gave me improper food to eat, they just let me be.

These medications that I was getting where so heavy on my digestion, I mean giving me ghee right before bedtime. For me, that was like eating right before going to bed and telling me that it will be good for me. When I woke up my tongue was coated, like completely covert in a white layer and it smelled very bad.
These doctors have destroyed my health!

 

The ghee:
1

 

This is me after 2 weeks of panchakarma and their diet and all of the wrong medications:2.jpg

 

The next 4 days I was constipated right before the purgation. On day 1 I let the doctors know and then 3 days later finally a doctor showed up I had not seen a doctor previous to this. In that time, I was just getting constipated and nobody knew. Yes! Right before the important purgation day. On 1st October, the purgation was given and as I told you already it was a big mess. The picture below shows 5 PM on the day of the purgation which is half a day of just feeling sick:
3.jpg

After this, I started to go against all doctorly advice and went on a fast for 1.5 days and I broke the fast with half a bowl of rice kanji and then the picture below is the day after purgation.

2 October 2019 6AM:
7.jpg

Just look at the difference! How much aama has been building up. Instead of the purgation removing all of the aama and getting a clear tongue.

 

This one is from the same day but then 1PM after I have fasted 1.5 days and after this picture below, I broke the fast and ate 1 meal, the first meal.
8.jpg

 

Now compare this with ALL of the above pictures. It seems that without the wrong medications, without food, without treatments, without any doctor around and just fasting on my own I can remove the aama.

 

I lost the picture of day 3 after the purgation but I have this one from the fourth day:

8.jpg

 

 

On day 3 I let the doctors back in to do their job and followed their advice as best as I still could.

And this is 5 October, 6AM:
10.jpg

 

You can clearly see that they are back in my treatments because aama is growing again.

Below is the same day but just 4 hours later in the morning, 10PM after earlier having breakfast and treatments.

11.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

6 October, 6AM on the left and on the same day at 9PM on the right. More aama then before.

 

7 October, 6AM left, same day 6PM right:

 

And then 8 October 6AM. This is now 7 days after the purgation:

 

4.jpg

Clearly, if you watch all of the pictures one after the other you can see that I had more and more aama in 2 weeks and then a whole lot more with the purgation. After 2 days I had digested like 90% and then with every day after their medicines and treatment I had more and more aama. Based upon this I decided to quit with everything. This was the fourth week of my 5 weeks of staying there. Now all I wanted was food, sleep AND TO GO BACK HOME!

 

The reason I stayed there for as long as I did was that I already booked a plane ticket home in advance which I will never do again.

During that week of counting down the days I wanted to get my own medications for home use and not what they gave me in the hospital. In the end, I finally had my medications and then I needed to have my papers ready for customs and after 5 days of waiting they told me you will get your medical discharge certificate but not a paper for your own medications. I was asking for this for 2 weeks and on the very last day, I still had no papers. Every day Dr. Adina and Dr. Jishnoe said yes tomorrow you will get them and they kept saying this, then the last day they both went home and I had nothing. I called every number I could call and all I got was it will come don’t worry.

I was planning on going to bed early because the next day I needed to wake up early to go to the airport so a week ago I asked for 3 sleeping pills which worked great during my first 2 weeks. On the last day I still hadn’t received them. It was now 10 PM and my last day being there, I knew that Dr. Jishnoe secretly went home and the evening doctor who was impossible to reach (go figure) kept telling me he was still somewhere around but didn’t know where he has been telling me this since 4 o clock. At 8 o clock, everything was dark and nobody was there only the reception staff and guards.

I kept calling every 15 minutes but his phone was off so I called the reception and they said no he has gone home. Then I got a call from the evening doctor and he said I can’t call him because his phone is off but I talked to him and he will give you the papers, so I confronted them because he just lied about the entire thing, the doctor was not here and he did not talk to him yet he now was telling me he was there and did talk to him yet his phone was off and he did not see him, does any of that make any sense? They constantly lie and don’t even have a good cover story to cover their own lies up nor to cover up other people’s lies. Somehow, they all lie about everything and they even are covering it up for others.

Then around 22:15, the evening doctor showed up which was even a different doctor who called me the entire time and he gave me freshly printed papers that were still hot. After reading the papers I now know why it took so long.

These people don’t care about you as a patient, they just went home and ignored me. They then got a call that they needed to give me the papers so Dr. Jishnoe instead of telling the truth tried to call different doctors to collect all of my information and after hours he finally could make those papers on his computer at home and fax them to the evening doctor so that he could give them to me. What was on that paper was the same bullshit as was on the intake forms which they falsified. They took parts of my previous discharge certificate, parts of the intake form and parts from the daily progress reports and just made the whole thing up with medications that I never bought from them.

Finally, I could go to bed and with all of the stress and a high vata because of it, I could get a couple of hours of sleep before a 30-hour flight back home.

When I was at the airport, I showed the papers which were all wrong and based on wrong falsified data and luckily no problems at customs but man what a ride was that.

On the next day in the morning 1 hour before I left the hospital, I had sent out a letter to every person of importance at this hospital and also to the director at the other hospital where I was 2 years ago. You can find this letter here.

This letter explained all of the above but in much further detail, I also asked for my money back because they cheated me and if they failed to do so I would make this entire story public and I would file official complaints to a whole bunch of Indian Institutions who may or may not do anything about it. Then 30 mins before my taxi would arrive, I was in my room trying to remain cool and then Ms. Parvathi wanted to talk to me. She was from management and worked there for 12 years and said I am shocked to hear this story I have never heard anything like this, she apologized to me and asked if there was anything she could do. To let you know, she was the only one in 5 weeks who showed any apathy towards me or responsibility, I answered no because in 20 minutes I am gone from this place, all I want is a full refund as I have written in the email. She asked a bunch of more times are you sure I can’t do anything which I replied no you can’t but I thank you for being here and saying sorry and asking me if you can do anything. All you can do is try to do some detective work and figure out why nobody notified you about this because I already talked to the manager and vice manager and they didn’t follow up on anything so something must be wrong, and then she left the room and I went into my taxi. She said she would figure out why she never was notified about any of this during the 2 weeks of me complaining there. As of today, I have not heard anything from here about this so I decided after a few weeks to contact her. When I spoke to her and she then started to act like all the others (not caring anymore), she also did not respond to my questions and tried to end the conversation which in the end she did.

I already paid most of the money to them when I was there but not all of it and then I needed to pay the remainder and then when I was there she said we will refund that amount back to you once we have received it because I said I had transferred it already. Later in that email, she said she still would refund it when she received it but I also said I want a full refund because my entire stay there was all for nothing, you messed up the first 3 weeks and the last week(s) you used to correct the mess you made so actually nothing was done so I shouldn’t pay anything. She said nothing about it. Actually, nobody did.

I don’t really know what position she had but she said she got a message from the president who I mailed the letter to. He was unable to come by while I was there because he was attending other problems at a very remote location which was not close by. So the conclusion is that she must have been higher up yet even when it was received there nobody that followed up on it. She seemed to care but, in the end, when you leave there, they will forget about you because really, they really don’t care about anything.

Remember the alarm bells that should have sounded at the beginning of my story? When I started writing this article in a word file, I asked for Ms. Parvaty’s email which I got a pretty fast reply and I emailed her the following:

“Hello,

I am writing to you today because you were so kind as to show up in my room 1 hour before I left the hospital and you seemed the most reasonable of all of the staff there.

However, it has been 2.5 weeks almost and I have not received my full refund (of 400.000 Rs) nor have I had any person contacting me.

You said that in your 12 years of working there you have never had this complication and was wondering why it hadn’t come to your attention sooner, I can think of 1 reason why that is. This is because nobody cares, nobody knows what dharma is anymore and it looks like you do not either and I find it very rude.

Why nobody brought it to your attention is the exact same reason why you are doing nothing with it right now, laziness, not giving one bit about any patient or person.

I could be wrong but I do not think so, India is just filled with this mental attitude which is very different from the west.

I would like to give you personally a second chance to make up for the lack of following through and I ask you to write me a letter about your supposed investigation in the matter and an answer to my full refund, which as of today I have not received nor have had any contact regarding this.

If for some reason this email will be ignored just like all of my others over a period of 2 years, I am proceeding with my plan of taking legal action and also posting pictures, video recordings, audio and more about the hospital and its staff and how Ayurveda is not being practiced there.

If the full refund that I asked for in my letters is deposited to my PayPal account or deposited back to my bank account of which your administration has a record of I will cancel my legal counseling and procedures. You have until 18th of November 2019.”

Basically, she said nothing about it and later broke off all contact, just like the rest of them have done.

Now this last week I tried one more thing and that was contacting the managing director again who also owns the entire corporation and asked him directly if anyone has taken a look at these problems and what the results were from this and also if he could give me answers to my questions because I wanted to see heads rolling plus I asked about the full refund. Who knows maybe the uppermost higherup would care and be able to help me out? Finally, after a long time, I spoke to him. Read it here which is his email to me.

After you have read this you can clearly see that he did nothing for himself he just said to his staff go figure this out for me and the staff who is the problem itself reports back no problem boss and then he closed the case. Then he does not address any issue I have raised, not even that they gave me for 3 weeks the wrong medications and that this is just a small detail and that I am complaining about it which I shouldn’t do. Basically, he doesn’t care and dismisses the entire thing. ‘So on with business… Let’s see how much money I made today.’

And this is the guy that runs that place. His father must have been proud.

People are corrupt on the inside and they destroy everything that is outside.

 

Let’s dive into a bit more detail about something which I call medical fraud.

I shall now explain to you what they did with the daily progress reports that they are supposed to write down daily.

It contains columns where they should ‘diagnose’ you every day, like; how is your digestion, show me your tongue, show me your iris, how is your urine and stool etc.

What they do is almost every day there is a different doctor doing rounds so it’s not like you have 1 or 2 doctors who come and visit you it is like an entire football team of doctors and every time you need to tell them the same story again and again because nobody knows what’s going on with you as they see 100 patients every day and those patients see 2 doctors a day and every day is a new day with different doctors. They come and ask you 2 or maybe 4 things out of 7 and then they leave the others blank, next day or even in the evening a new doctor comes and he or she fills in the remaining things without asking you anything. So, the next day a doctor comes and doesn’t know what is up with you for 3 days and looks back at those days on those forms and then gets a picture from those days and based upon that information they decide medical things, like giving new medications or stopping some treatments. But almost all of that information is falsified and made up by these doctors. All of this is medical negligence and fraud but to them it is normal.

Don’t even try to explain this to them because they won’t understand it, probably because they are too busy playing with their phones right in front of you.

I emailed my letter which I mentioned above to all of these email address and they never responded to any of my emails, I emailed them many times even:

– avp.navakkarai@avpayurveda.com (Saranya location)

– doctors@avtayurveda.com

– avt@avtayurveda.com

– healing@avtayurveda.com

– sathishcoe@gmail.com

– accounts@avtayurveda.com

– parvathysw@gmail.com (Ms. Parvathy)

– frontoffice@avtayurveda.com

kgraveendran@yahoo.com (Senior doctor K.G. Raveendran)

vinodayur@yahoo.co.in (manager at Saranya location)

mdoffice@avtayurveda.com (managing director P.R.Krishnakumar)

jishnusanthan772@gmail.com (Dr. Jishnoe)

Humanity, in general, has become so corrupted in spirit and this hospital is the same, there is no Ayurveda here.

Thus, ends my story.

 

 

I hope that you have enjoyed reading this but most importantly I hope you have learned something from my suffering at this place.

I would like to ask you for one thing, please spread this blogpost out on every social media you have let this kind of information spread out on the internet instead of them selling themselves in the positive light for which they are not.

And if you like email them using the above email addresses and let them know what you think or ask them questions. I ask this because I want to make them feel responsible for what they did and still are doing to others in the hope they will see the light and change their ways, by getting messages from different people all over the world maybe they will see the or question their own behavior. Let’s give these people the credit that is due.

Thank you for letting me share this story with you.

 

Addendum…

  • In 2018 all prices went up with 50% and nobody notified me so I was billed double of what I expected this second year.
  • There is absolutely no effective communication and yet they all seem to talk to each other every day by phone multiple times.
  • For over 2 years I have been wondering why the treatments failed and as of today nobody has given me an answer
  • They will tell you that this or that disease is totally curable in the beginning, yet at the end, you will get a note on your discharge certificate that says it is incurable because of its complicated nature. While they obviously did not even try to cure my illness this second time because they gave me the same medications and treatment as 2 years ago in the first hospital (Saranya) I went to….. so that it is incurable is just a coverup name for we messed up
  • Don’t expect them to know what the entire treatment plan is for you because they will wing it
  • If you warn them about adverse reactions to certain things expect them to do it anyway and then cover it up
  • If you are in pain, they have absolutely no way of dealing with it, the best is to take strong pain medications with you when you visit them
  • Don’t send them any medical information, papers, files, pictures or results because they will just ignore it but the final report I was given was just copying the western diagnosis reports I had sent them but written in sanskrit words.
  • If you go for panchakarma here expect to lose a lot of weight, even if you are already emaciated. It is normal yes, but they will say 2 to 3 kg is normal and when you have reached that they will say 4 is normal when you have reached that they will go as far as 6. In their eyes, it’s all normal. If you die, they will probably say its normal. For example, from day 1 told the dietician that I absolutely don’t want any chili or pepper in my food because of allergies, she will tell the kitchen yet the kitchen who say ok to everything yet do not follow. Expect to get pepper in everything. Don’t complain about it or else you will get more pepper next time. Some days it was so bad that I ended up eating some dry chapati with cold water.
  • The hospital used a menu which is filled with like 20 items, from simple kanji and khichari to a heavy thali and sour buttermilk or raw carrots. If you ask for only khichari you will get khichari which is very watery and lots of half-raw cold vegetables for taste and texture with lots of liquid dal but you can’t order this for breakfast for some reason.

Erik.

 

Post Script:

I have already spoken to the following persons or institutions:

– National Consumer Disputes Redressal Commission
– Department of Consumer Affairs
– Department of Administrative Reforms and Public Grievances (Administrative Reforms and PG, External Affairs, Consumer Affairs, Ayush, Health & Family Welfare, Justice, Legal Affairs, Pharmaceutical, Science and Technology, Tourism)
– Medical Council of India
– Commissioner and Superintendent of Police Coimbatore, Commissioner Corporation of Coimbatore
– Tamil Nuda Police
– Ministry of Health & Family Welfare
– Tamil Nadu Medical Council
– Medical Council of India
– Ministry of Ayush
– Chief Minister of Tamil Nuda
– Central Council of Indian Medicine
– Tamil Nadu State Consumer Disputes Redressal Commission
– Coimbatore District Consumer Court and Consumer Forum
– Coimbatore District Consumer Disputes Redressal Forum
– Coimbatore District Forum: National Consumer Disputes Redressal Commission
– Netherlands embassy in New Delhi
– Newspapers: The Hindu, Times of India, Dainik Bhaskar, Live Hindustan, Dinamalar, Maalaimalar, Dinakaran, Dinamani, Thinaboomi
I will keep you all updated if anything new happens.
Doubt it will.
I forgot to write about that after a few weeks they gave me some forms with questions about how everything is going and what I thought about it all and some open space for improvements, I ended up writing 4 pages full for them to improve and they wanted my email address so I was hoping that when they would read it they would contact me about all of that but it has been months now and nobody has emailed me and I just know that they will never do that because they don’t really care.
Welcome to India!

 

 

 

Addition from Erik, Mar 8,  2020:

I want to let everyone see how corrupt the Indian government is (which are its own citizens, ie. Indians)

It has been 1 month since I have sent out the emails.
Other people have contacted the hospital and its staff members for me, i even reached out a couple of times, this article has been shared on Facebook, review sites and what not and so far zero responses from them. (thank you for those who have spread it)
That is except for one which is a fake review from one of the staff that they posted in the article itself under the comment section.
I filed 7 public grievances to different departments, for 5 of them I got the status of: Case closed, below follows an overview of them.
– Department of Health & Family Welfare >> Hospitals = Your grievance does not come under the purview of the Dept of Health and FW. Your grievance may pertain to Ministry of Ayush
– Department of Health & Family Welfare >> Medicines >> Allegation of Malpractice = The complaint does not pertain to D/o Health and FW. May be taken up with the Ministry of Ayush.
– Department of Health & Family Welfare >> Medical Education >> Allegation of Corruption/ Malpractice = The grievance does not pertain to D/o Health and FW. May be taken up with the Government of Tamil Nadu.
– Department of Health & Family Welfare >> Other = The grievance does not pertain to D/o Health and FW. May be taken up with the Ministry of Ayush.
– Department of Health & Family Welfare >> Public Health >> Other = The grievance does not pertain to D/o Health and FW. May be taken up with the Government of Tamil Nadu.
Then some of them tell you to go to the Ministry of Ayush which is specifically created for Ayurveda and they close the case also.
Ayush = Not related to this Ministry (CASE CLOSED)
I now have one open with a status that i don’t understand.
– External Affairs >> Others = Under process by Coimbatore (PA TO COP)
Wanna bet that this case will be closed pretty soon and that they will not do anything because i also reported this to the local and state police which it is being sent to right authority now (so i think)
I even emailed the person from Ayush who closed the case and I have not received any message from them.
I also send out lots and lots of emails to different people including personal emails to the staff of Ayush way before and nobody responded.
Just to be clear from all of the people I have emailed which are like 50 people, even newspapers, only 1 replied back and fast also, guess who that was.. it was the Dutch Embassy and they said that they couldn’t do anything and that I should contact Ayush and the above departments (1 of them) which I already did.
As you can see, it is even futile, a waste of your time and effort and for some HOPE, don’t even bother by reporting it, just see what has happened, see what it has done to your mind, accept that it happened, how it happened, fully and completely and move on.

This is the harsh reality of Ayurveda in India today.

 

 

 

49 thoughts on “How I was misdiagnosed/mistreated at the Arya Vidya Chikitsalayam (AVP) Hospital in Coimbatore (this is Ayurveda today, beware)

  1. Gosh Erik, thank you for sharing this. Reading the whole story… what utter madness. One big sham. I will share it as you’ve asked, hoping it may open some eyes. I for sure will take my steps with doubled caution when I’ll go to India. Just the very fact that they have been oiling you on a daily basis while you were having aama… when you told me about that when you were there I thought that sounded very odd, but being the rookie that I was/am I thought they might’ve known something more nuanced about Ayurveda than just the simple basic rule that I knew of “no oiling when you have aama”. Turns out not, they really didn’t know what they were doing and/or didn’t care at all. I hope you’ll regain your health soon. Take care my friend.

  2. I’m Indian, the entire Indian Spirituality is already corrupted like 1000s of years ago and then the same dark forces are promoting it, because they know its useless.

    I have said this a 100 times, Please do not come to India, its dead already, Women are not safe here, food is shit, Con Rules here, Greed is the name of the day.

    I’m sorry I feel angry and sad, with your knowledge, you would have known better and should have never set foot in India bro…Its a highly dangerous place for those WHO THINK.

    The entire Science & Spirituality is both controlled by dark forces.

    Please look into Black Goo…With Sea Water you can cure all diseases, We are mere Worker Bees for the Orion Empire. You Must Cure Yourself

    • Sunil, thanks for your comment. Over the past decade of living in India and studying, the hardest part is when I come back to the states and deal with the naivety and stupidity of the people back here in this whole spiritual movement or think that they are this or that because they have been to Goa and did a yoga teacher training there for 10 days. Or worse they’ve never even been to India hadn’t had all kinds of glamorized ideas about it. Yeah, I think that more people should actually hear about what it’s like over there. It’s hard to swallow for most foreigners. They don’t wanna believe it, specially when they have created all kinds of identity around it. So thanks again for your addition.

    • I am very sorry to hear that Lucia Maria. I can only guess that you also have suffered no recourse in your experience as well and were dismissed or invalidated due to it. This all is very very normal and quite scary as it further damages the individual who is already damaged. It also damages ayurveda sadly. I may add here that there actually is real ayurveda out there, it is just rare and not easy to find. Personally, my advice is much of the same as Sunil who commented prior…. your on your own. Educate educate educate. Ayurveda is a very very vast and beautiful science that I have personally witnessed what would be impossible by Western comprehension over and over in the past decade. It takes time to learn and constant study from actual authentic sources, there are no short cuts. I hope that you have recovered as best as possible from your ordeal.

  3. Wow, this is very scary to read about when you assume that if you put your trust in a doctor that they should be doing the best they can by you (even if they don’t have the right knowledge in the first place, is besides the point, they should be doing the best of their ability no matter what that is).

    I hope Erik is able to find the answers he needs, I’m sure if he’s working with you Brad that he will. Those pictures of his tongue are insane, like how does it even get to that point and they just keep going! I could easily see myself in his situation, basically just accepting what they are doing (trusting… hoping that they know what they are doing) and letting myself get sicker before speaking up (I probably wouldn’t have even spoken up, just kept hoping its a part of the process).

    I don’t know anything about what its like in India (apart from what I have briefly read about that are on this blog), but it seems that there is so much corruption. Like in the west, its like everyone really cares and is very passionate about these things (even though they usually have a big ego based around it), but they just don’t have the actual knowledge to achieve what it is they are trying to do, whereas in India its just so much blatant deceit when it comes to this medical stuff. (that’s just an assumption)

    It sucks this happened to somebody, but hopefully by standing up and putting this out there, people will be able to avoid being abused by some of these scammers.

    • “in the west, its like everyone really cares and is very passionate about these things (even though they usually have a big ego based around it), but they just don’t have the actual knowledge to achieve what it is they are trying to do, whereas in India its just so much blatant deceit when it comes to this medical stuff.”

      Grant, your assumption is right on the money.

  4. Thank you for the article and the support!

    Today i have send out 40 emails to Indian institutions regarding this malpractice and i have send out 7 public grievances to different governmental departments. (ayush, health and family welfare, external affairs) regarding hospital malpractice, uneducated staff, misuse of medicines and others.

    For YOU who are reading this, email these people, stalk them, spam message boards, forums, Facebook, social media, spread the word out.

    • I put a negative review on Erik’s behalve on their Facebook-page. If anyone else has had negative experiences there aswell, here’s the link:

      https://www.facebook.com/avpayurveda/reviews/?referrer=page_recommendations_see_all&ref=page_internal

      I also sent the whole list of emailadresses in the article an e-mail. Part of which below.

      “Both times he left your clinic worse than how he had entered. He has asked for a full refund which I think is more than reasonable since he has put a lot of money into a treatment that only made him more ill. To me a compensation on top of the full refund seems more fair, because of the negative impact you’ve had on his live, including but not limited to the physical trauma due to improper treatments. To put that into perspective, none of you have even paid the respect of acknowledging the mistakes you’ve made. All you have done is ignoring him or giving bad excuses, showing your total disrespect towards the patient and complete lack of taking responsability for your actions. I urge you to transfer back to him the full refund including a fair compensation.

      Thanks to Erik I now surely know where not to go for ayurvedic treatment. I will be sharing the blog-article on social media, because people have the right to know.”

    • Thanks for your due diligence Jesse. Here is something to realize, even getting back his money does not undo what has been done. Here lies the bigger problem. Not even an apology does that. One does not realize the danger of improper/negligent treatments because one does not know ayurveda. It isn’t like stuff just undoes itself and gets better on its own.

    • We really don’t know what we’re messing with. Thanks for stressing that. Money or apologies pale in comparison with the consequences of what they have done, or better put, they are unrelated to what allready has been done. A true apology would mean they might be more cautious with a next patient, but it would be foolish to think such a thing would happen.

    • Jesse, Money does not matter when you are diseased. A true apology would be them insisting he come back at their cost so that he can undergo the proper treatments to fix what has been done.
      Yes, I cannot stress it enough that you don’t know what you are messing with. I have said this over and over. The depth and detail of Ayurveda is amazing, and no one is going to even know that the depth exists studying it reading Western books or Frawley, Lad, Chopra, etc.
      A little bit of information is very dangerous, especially when in naive foolish hands. When you do the BAMS, you will look back and remember me saying all of this and understand it from a totally different perspective. You will also look back and understand that there is absolutely no way to get this through people’s heads. We do not know what we do not know.

    • I have noticed that it can only be understood by experience itself, not through books, internet, movies, youtube and other people. Brad has his ways of telling it to you yet years can go by until you notice and that does have its effect on you. If you don’t do BAMS at least then i would suggest people to entirely forget ayurveda and health in general i guess, unless you are willing to undergo hardships or ill health.

      First person to respond to my emails is the dutch embassy in India, who would have guess.

    • Yes, you’re right on part of it. All of the sciences, the ancient sciences that is, or experiential. Meaning that you actually have to experience the knowledge for you to understand it. I would not go so far as to say don’t study ayurveda at all, I would say take a really good look at what you’re getting into from a very humble standpoint. Taking a certification course, I have three of those that I did before studying real Ayurveda, does not make you anything but dangerous. This can be very simply seen by going to the Ayurveda Institute’s website and seeing what they call (selling as) panchakarma. Luckily Dr. Ladd has watered it down so much that he thinks it’s harmless but the truth is you give any little bit of information and ignorance takes over without having proper knowledge properly taught. I have written several blog posts on this but just to say it again, the actual study of Ayurveda to be a practitioner in India Is six years minimum for the first level and then there is MD and PhD after that. Try to find that equivalent in any foreign country. And then when you take into consideration that it’s from a different culture and there’s a cultural context, this kind of puts it all into perspective.

  5. Hi.. It’s really sad to know what happened with you… But I would like to say to all that please don’t lose your faith in Ayurveda due to such incidences.. People can be bad, Institutions can be not upto the par, but Ayurveda is one eternal science… Just try to find genuine ayurveda doctor before coming..

    • Namaskar
      Dr Patil
      As much as I agree with your sentiments about Ayurveda and how incredible it is (because I have developed such depth of reverence for it over the past decade in experiencing my education of it and seeing the results of it in my own practice), it is also just as much a problem today to even find a genuine Ayurveda doctor due to the level of humanity/integrity (or rather lack of) of Indians/India. I do not propose that there are not some genuine Ayurveda doctors out there, but the truth is that they are a needle in a haystack, odds are probably even less. Foreigners do not know this. In my decade of being in India studying and behind the scenes, I can only advise the unknowing foreigners to stay away for their own health rather than jump into a pit of vipers unknowingly and without possibilities of discernment. It is safer, and I am coming from the place where these are real human beings’ lives at stake. This is absolutely not the view from Indian’s side. They do not know the damage that can be done because Ayurveda is promoted as being this spiritual and natural medicine which foreigners then relate it as being harmless because it is natural. Also, because Western knowledge is so very limited and this is what these people are coming from, it certainly sets them up to blindly trust as that depth seems magical from where they view from. That’s the catch. Same as what is being sold with the whole spirituality movement in the West today, and you know the truth of that as well as I do. I certainly do know the damage that can be done from improperly done treatments. Irreversible in many cases. I have witnessed it as well as been harmed myself. I have also seen the beauty and miraculous wisdom being used properly and it’s results. Amazing healing. So it is a double-edged sword.
      They have no way to judge what is an authentic properly educated doctor, I do being in that context for a decade. Seeing that there is mainly corruption and deceit in India, I would rather warn them truthfully about the dangers than lay on a fake layer of hope. What they do from there is their own responsibility. Foreigners don’t have any clue about what the real India is like because it has been promoted as a dreamy spiritual mecca to them and this is hardly the truth of it. It is better to error on the side of caution than the risk that is prominent.
      Realize, when Erik was at AVP, they did a whole puja before his whole treatments. What was that? How does one even digest the fact that a pomp and showy puja is done (for what?) and then the negligence that he had no idea was going on from that point on.
      You, as a doctor can so obviously read how they did not do any intake before putting him into treatments and admit how absurd and so very very wrong this is. This is AVP, one of the most renowned institutions of Ayurveda in India. You know how it really is there. So do I.
      So as much as I want to agree with you, I have to side on the side of truth and doing what is right and what is not right is letting people believe something that is actually not true and letting sheep wander to their slaughter because of it. It is actually why I started this blog in the first place years back, to spread truth rather than fiction.
      Example:
      Foreigners go to Mysore because of the popularity of Pattabhi Jois’s ashtanga yoga. The Ayurveda ‘doctors’ there do PK treatments while these people are taking their workshops. Those foreigners do not have any clue on their ‘yoga journey’ about the details of what is contraindicated and what is not. How can they? They do not know that PK is contraindicated when they are doing their primary series or secondary series or whatever level training. You do, I do. Yet the doctors there don’t actually care when they are making money off them.

      I have a story of a yoga studio owner from London who was there and went thru PK as she was also involved in the ativyayam asana practice there. She ended up going back to London and having an aneurysm and died. End of story. They do not have any way to correlate that it was actually from the contraindicated Ayurveda treatments because they do not know better. I know and so do you.
      Sadly, I have plenty of stories like this to share. and sadly I have way more stories like this than the opposite type f stories over the decade spent in India, all over India.

    • I am so sorry on behalf of my country for what you went through.. People like who you encountered are a blot on name of Ayurveda … There are still a lot of genuine people and Doctors but sadly they don’t use much internet, are busy doing their work well… I try to treat my patients honestly , and so do a lot of my friends..I just wish and and hope you would meet a lot such people…I am an Asst.Professor too , and I try to give my best to my students so that such cases don’t occur.. I told them about your example , and how we should take care so that our shastra doesn’t get blame due to our lack of deep study..
      Anyways, I love your blog…Keep writing!

    • Thank you. Thank you for having the kindness and awareness to apologize. It is really much bigger than you, as you know. Unfortunately, as I said, the foundational underpinnings of India is all about corruption and the other unfortunate thing is that this will never change.
      The thing to think about is what is being taught to the students. They are being forced to make fake case papers for the fake inspection of the IICM who’s inspectors know that it is all faked because they themselves were doing the same thing when they were students. I wish i had taken a picture of the note that the ICCM inspector had given to the principle at one of the colleges I had been living/studying at to show here where it states that he would like the newest iphone for his wife, meaning this is what the principle was to get it for him as a bribe. This is just a speck of the massive amount of filth that covers Ayurveda and all of the deep knowledge, it covers everything in India. The thing to see here is that you are teaching the students this. But how many students are actually even interested in learning Ayurveda?? What is the actual syllabus being taught? Is it Ayurveda or is it all from an allopathic view focused more on allopathy? There are literally thousands of these sorts of things I could list here about Ayurveda in India and its ‘blots’ because I have personally experienced and witnessed these things from being behind the scenes for a decade and not being a tourist or a foreigner coming to do a two-week course (for more than it costs for an Indian’s BAMS tuition for a year). This is just the very truth of India and the very sad and pathetic truth of how India holds its own heritage and Shastra. It is all for sale. Anything to make those US dollars.
      Notice the courses short courses for foreigners BHU and Jamnagar have now and even correspondence courses. What a complete joke. You also know that these are 2 of the maybe 6 real institutions left that were not long ago still trying to hold on to authentic classical ayurveda. What’s left?
      AYUSH is a joke and fully corrupt. ICCM is a joke and even more corrupt. What is the future for Ayurveda???

      I agree with you, there are several doctors that are genuine. But it is few.

      Thank you for sharing with your students. I hope that some of them actually heard you.

      What the major flaw is in the education of Ayurveda today in India is that morals and ethics are left at the minimum if even talked about. It should be a major focus seeing the state of the lack in India. So I applaud you on doing your best to hold integrity.

  6. I am also an Indian and know very well what is happening in the name of treatment. All the hospitals are out to loot you, It is a very sad plight to know and accept that these things are happening commonly everywhere and most of the people are ignorant about treatment as you have said above. The doctors who treated you wrongly and also the management of the above said hospital is also to blame and has to accept the blame for the same all these people will surely go to hell and karma will get back to them sooner or later. My sincere apologies for the ill treatment you received at their hands. I hope after all these things the humanity in them wakes up and they change for the better, in spite of the fact that they do charge money and other fees why don’t they take care of their patients and treat them accordingly. Let me remind them of Hippocrates oath that each one of them take before entering service. We must not let them go scot free as they will be encouraged to continue in the same manner.

  7. I would like to share my experience at the AVP (Arya Vaidya Chikitsalayam) hospital Tirchy road , coimbatore.

    I have been going for treatment for almost 10 years.
    The very first time I went there, I had no Idea what to expect other than going there with total trust.
    Because I was not given much options in America other than being treated with steroids which has tremendous amount of side effects from long term use. As with many other drugs. The experts in US also encouraged me seek alternative methods.

    From my first visit since I was referred to Dr.Raveendran the institution medical director and I was under the care of the team. To make a long story short people with similar conditions in US are not getting well but slowly deteriorating and to the experts amazement with minor set backs I am consistently improving also not on any medications on a long term basis.
    As my conditions were improving, many of my friends started come not for rejuvenation but for chronic conditions.
    Few Examples are : severe RA, severe fibromyalgia, asthmatic, psoriasis in young person.
    Young individual with alopecia total ,after treatment from Dr.Raveendran and his team had a full growth.
    There was a cancer survivor and Dr.Raveendran checking her pulse for less than two minutes asked what kind of cancer.
    These are not just stories nor statistics, but true incidents.
    As I have witnessed during my visits for almost a decade, remarkable recovery of stroke victims, young people coming in wheelchairs and walking out.
    Skin conditions, neurological conditions, metabolic conditions being improved.
    One of my dear friend was saved fro MS by Ayurvedic treatment.
    I have benefitted a great deal along with few of my very close friends and family members.
    The cleaning, ground, kitchen staff are very caring personnel. As are the therapists, pharmacy, reception are
    I can not mention any names but very notable people where the medicine has give up due to strokes and complications are currently not only well and active run big institution.
    Dr.Raveendran if one the traditional Vaidya a gift to ayurveda and teams of doctors that work here work under tremendous amount of knowledge, vast amount of clinical experience.
    And
    I am happy due to this institution the traditional system is still thriving and creating talented doctors.
    This is not a place for short term course of fellowship.
    The entire staff here are extremely courteous, respectful and caring.
    Just wanted to share my personal experience, and observation.
    Is there room for improment

    • Surya… is this a paid review?
      It feels like you are one of the persons who works there or who is affiliated with them. and not a honest review by someone who now and then comes there for treatments. I’m being honest and i must say it feels made up and just a positive promotion to undo the damage that this entire article is doing to the reputation of AVP.
      Like, how can you even see al these recovery’s taking place during your stay there when the patients are still doing treatments? (recovery from disease mostly would happen after +- 3 months of after care, BACK HOME. if i’m right)

    • Erik isn’t the only one with negative experiences. These are copy-pasted from their Facebook-page. These are 4 out of the 5 1-star reviews given by their clients. Looking at their names they’re proparbly all indians. Perhaps because indians are less naive than westerners and thus actually able to detect the BS.

      “(1/5) Doctors should KEEP THEIR PHONES AWAY while consulting. Extremely disappointing. TREAT PATIENTS WITH RESPECT. THEY DON’T SEEK TREATMENT FOR FREE.”

      “(1/5) Very poor, Behaviour at the reception and the asst of Dr. Ravindran was very disappointing. Never thought a patient, who trust the telephonic converstion and visit the hospital will be treated the way I was treated.”

      “(1/5) Does not deserve even 1 star. Complete waste of time and money.”

      “(1/5) The avp at ramanathapuran is great..! But they have another branch at navakkarai which is located somewhere at the outskirts of cbe. Avp medicines and treatments were all fine but the food at navakkarai was just horrible n was like hell! You wont see a single shop near this center and u wont get anything there!! They got a lot of money for food but i seriously dint know y it was such a disaster! They hav said in their website that a dietician wil come and visit daily n give us nutritious foods as per ayurveda standards.. I stayed at the navakkarai campus for two weeks n did not meet any so called dietician n the food that they were serving from their own avp canteen was so bad! The treatment was good but thats not everything right? Food? Beware ppl!! Treatment is important! But food.. Isn’t that important too! Both my parents n me were starving there literally for two weeks! We are not those kinda ppl who eat a lot but i did not even get my basic nutrition and was tortured there! I had to discontinue my treatment due to a heavy loss of nutirion n jumped off from there by god’s grace!!”

      And this review is just laughable:

      “(4/5) AVP has the ideal place setting for the ultimate healing to take place be it for a detox program or severe cases like cancer, Parkinson’s etc. They have doctors In the caliber what we refer to as the Gods of Ayurveda. All the nurses are like Florence Nightingales, with so much compassion for all. There therapists are like those of heavenly angels and the food is medicine.
      I personally recommend AVP to all, you should all visit here once and receive a treatment.”

      https://www.facebook.com/pg/avpayurveda/reviews/?ref=page_internal

    • What I really appreciate about WordPress is that anyone that makes a comment on this blog, it gives their IP address.

      If I could post a screenshot in the comments I would but anyone can run the IP address on any IP address checker on the internet…

      The IP address that this “Surya” is making her comment from is 103.252.118.25 which just happens to be right there in Coimbatore at Arya Vaidya Chikitsalayam.

      ISP 103.252.118.25 India Tamil Nadu Coimbatore

      Organization Cloud 7 Wireless Networks Private Limited

      Latitude 11.0000 Longitude 76.9667

  8. I recently watched “Why Cheat India” which you shared a link to in the introduction of this article “Cheating and lying is the way of life there.”. You once spoke about India being a “3rd world country with a culture on the level of survival like dogs fighting over a piece of meat. And it is easier to cheat than it is to fight.” which I thought was such a clarifying way of putting it. I can totally see how this movie shows just that, and how that fits into the larger context of this article. I thought I might share the epilogue of the film here:

  9. Hi Brad (and others),

    I hope you are staying safe from the Coronavirus wherever you are right now.

    Do you have any opinions on all of this happening in the world at the moment (such as global karma or whatnot), not just the actual virus but all the panic and fear it is causing, lost jobs etc, But at the same time it seems pollution is decreasing for the moment at least.

    Good luck with everything!

    • Hey Grant. Yes, stay safe as possible.
      I don’t have opinion, I have what I can see reading the astrological charts. I could explain in great detail but what i would have to say would only really sound like conspiracy theory stuff so I will not. if you wanna understand more simply look up mars ketu terrorist 911 in google as a search. Ketu and mars were conjuct in saggittairus and now mars has moved into capricorn with saturn coming into a soon to be planetary war when two planets are within a degree of each other.
      I could share that I called all of this back in January. The market crash and the economic destruction of what has been the system in light of a new system. The ‘operation repo’ of the US Fed of trillions of dollars to create a false and fake inflated economy, the catalyst of the CV to bring the pop of that inflated balloon and then the bankruptcy of the global economy to usher in the new system. The oil war of saturn and mars conjuct in capricorn and the death and destruction of the “yama yoga” (yama is the lord of death) that they have created in the 2nd house of the chart of the US chart.
      But again, all of this has no point to share. It can only be taken as an opinion when one does not have the knowledge of astrology and with what we think astrology is from the general understanding (the western idea woo woo stuff) of it as the lens that is looked thru.
      Or what i just shared only sounds crazy.
      lol
      So yes, why bother
      It is all far larger than the normal average person even can grasp.
      Please research the things I wrote above to learn.

    • Hi Grant again.
      Just adding here, there will not be any letting up of this until june but it will come back. prepare for the worst for until end nov 2021.

  10. Glad to hear your doing well during this time, Brad, keep it up!

    While I don’t pretend to know anything about the astrology (but I do believe fully in it, while being aware there are so few legitimate sources of it), I do find that very fascinating about how many major events have had these certain ‘astrological positions’ in common and that it really is predictable (obviously kindergarten stuff for you lol, but pretty mind-blowing for me after reading a bit about it). Thanks for mentioning that! But yeah, I can see that it is definitely crazy for someone who doesn’t believe in astrology (or more likely doesn’t understand how it works due to associating it with the cartoony image that the west has given it)

    Anyway, I will stop hijacking this comment section, I just wanted to quickly ask how you were with the world going nuts (or media making it seem like that, probably both). Do you know how Erik from this blog post is doing and if he is getting his health back on track?

    • Thanks Grant, stay safe, stay smart.

      I totally understand. Really. We don’t have much of comprehension of things and since the ‘occult’ has become a popular thing it has taken anything that is real esoteric and made it even more out of access. It is actually a good thing.
      Understand this if you can…. ‘belief’. You say you believe in astrology. It is like saying I believe in gravity. Like it is something to be believed in or not. This is not what it is. It is not someone’s paradigm that they hold as a philosophy or anything.
      This is a huge dichotomy to really try to grasp.
      From the not knowing person, everything is in a realm of ‘belief’ because it validates their own being and their own ‘beliefs’.
      If you were to put in the years and years of study of the actual texts and then the years and years of seeing charts and reading (which is also part of the study) then you would over that time realize that it is nothing to do with belief and on top of that, the very experience of life changes drastically. Simply put into an example I give… if you continuously see the cycle of lives and rebirth in charts, what do you think it would do to the individual, would it be a belief? or would it be a realization or actualization?
      Don’t live in the world of beliefs.

    • Thank you for pulling me up on that, Brad! I can see what you mean when you use that analogy about believing in gravity (analogies are good for someone like me lol).

      I have to say, Brad, its great that you are actually trying to educate people, and not just validating them and letting them think they know something that they don’t.

      I’m sure it gets pretty frustrating for you to always be dealing with people who are so misguided and already heads filled with tons of stuff they have read or leaned from unauthentic sources.

      Hopefully you have a few people who you can flow with that are on the same page where you can discuss advanced understandings of these subjects.

      I would like to do at least a birth chart reading with you (been wanting to do it for a very long time), but sometimes I feel intimidated because I am definitely not one of those people, as I have no knowledge on any of these subjects so it would kind of be like you talking to a kid. I really would have nothing to offer you except the monetary exchange for your service. ( I know there is a wealth of knowledge on this blog, but even that started overloading me so I admit that I stopped trying to understand most of it, it is more of me reading it going “wow I can’t believe how deep and complicated this is, I will stay in my own kiddy pool so I don’t drown lol. That goes for all the subjects from yoga, ayurveda, meditation, and astrology. But at the same time, I have stopped trying to find any information on those subjects from any other sources, so at least I’m not filling my head with snake oil)

    • Hi Grant
      Analogies are good for everyone to be able to understand deeper things.

      You could ask and hear from many people here as to their thinking they had known stuff before and how they would share it with others. You can hear from them what they have come to understand what that was with deeper knowledge. I am sure there are plenty that would share their experiences and what they see the results of that being.
      For me, I have been working with people for 30 years, it has been my only profession so understanding the human being and understanding the destruction that happens because of the improper use of little knowledge is pretty clear. Validating people is stroking their ego. Feel good stuff. And add that to little knowledge and you make monsters. Why do that?
      I have commented on it in detail in pointing out the example of yoga teachers only going thru 200 hour courses and then being set free to teach. Teach what? Spread what? And you can simply look out there and see the results. Its business, an industry… nothing else.

      About doing a reading, I don’t practice any of this stuff anymore. I quit. This blog is the remaining remnants left.

    • Hi Brad,

      I completely agree with you about people learning a ‘little bit’ (which is usually wrong of at least half-wrong lol) of something that should be taking a lifetime to study, and then wanting to spread that info while appearing like a semi-guru type person (But I don’t need to tell you that, I’ve read it quite a few times on this blog).

      I’m sorry to hear that you don’t do readings or consultations anymore, my procrastination got me again lol, but I understand that it would be annoying constantly dealing with consumers who probably don’t know what they really want (which I admit, I simply am also one of them). Sometimes its better to just step back from it all.

      Thanks for posting what you have, Brad. I know I’m sooo far from knowing any applicable info about any of the subjects you talk about (pure laziness, otherwise I would have started learning Sanskrit to read the original texts like you did, but it really is just a mix of pure laziness, procrastination, entitlement, and excuses. I am honest though lol), but if nothing else this blog has stopped me from going and doing ‘treatments’ with the first ‘doctor’ that shows up when googling Ayurveda near me. And it really sinks in when I read this blog post about Erik. So thank you very much for that, Brad!
      I’m sure there are many other people out there who were in the same boat, who you have made think twice about getting panchakarmas or signing up for some kundalini yoga BS.

      Good luck with everything, Brad.

    • Hi Grant.
      One last comment to have a greater view.

      What is the use of teaching to people that can never actually grasp what you are teaching because their only paradigm of knowledge will be maintained in what they live/exist in? What is the use of healing people of their disease when they won’t take on what it was that cured them and dig in more and more dueto the very paradigm that they know is the western one of take a pill and everything gets better? Over 30 years I have worked with thousands of people…. none of which took the actual step into anything different than what they already knew and all of them went back to what created their disease in the first place.

      8 years I have been teaching someone that I am around daily. She even has even gone thru a break out of the paradigm with having something happen to her and Western mediicne, with all of its ‘experts’ could not figure out anything going on with her and wanted to label her psychologically ill. I ended up sending her to India for getting treatments and in that experience and the learning and studying she had while she was there, she comprehending a different paradigm existing as well as experienced it.
      Yet the thing is that it is not enough.
      It might be a peek and then a realization that there is something else but there can never be any real step inside of the for without the actual knowledge being properly studied and experienced.
      Meaning this, I can explain the astrology to you but without you ever actually going thru all the study of it and understanding and experiencing of that understanding…
      Everything is just a belief and concepts and peeking from outside the window in, not being inside.
      An this is in everything. This says alot about the world we live in today with youtube and the internet course and everything being as short as possible.

      I explained to a person a few weeks ago in conversation by using the analogy of if the two of us both were looking at a sunset
      The person that doesn’t know anything has limited sight
      They might see the colors and the sun and the beauty and appreciate it and make their own meanings up of it.
      But the person who understands the details and the function, how is the colors made, the photons, The air, the temperature, how one sees it, who is doing the seeing, what is that that is doing the seeing, and a trillion times more than this….
      The two are not the same and can not even be compared, different worlds different experience light years away from each other. Although the person that does not know will do their damnedest to validate their own experience being equal, unknowingly.

      A client from 8 years ago has been going and taking in the sun rise everyday now for a couple months. This is something I taught them about 8 years ago and they are only finally doing it.
      Along the path back to her house, they take detailed and close pictures of flowers and stuff because it is a totally new world to them. The amazing beauty of all this microscopic and small world.
      And it was always there, they just never knew it all existed

      In this, I have explained the Western paradigm with all its nuances of distraction and the mind that it creates and that everyone in it has but no one thinks they are that.

    • Hey Grant,

      I thought I might chime in and share some of my experiences. It’s a long reply and I hope its appropriate. I recognized myself in some of the stuff you said and felt inclined to reply. Basically all I can do is just repeat and confirm what Brad said, but then from the uneducated point of view and personal experience of one of the western low level minds that he has been teaching. Maybe you’ll find some of the things Brad says sound harsh and perhaps they are, but that’s not because Brad is harsh, but because the truth is harsh. In fact, as you might have seen I’ve been all over his blog, plaeging him with questions, and he’s answered so many of them. He’s offered so much free help and continues to do so, which I can only interpretate as his compassion and the goodness of his heart. And rightfully so he has told me (several times) to stop being so greedy in asking all kinds of questions and for advices (while he had given me so much allready, of which only a small part I had followed through): https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2013/04/11/and-you-thought-your-birthday-was-when/#comment-7882
      Recently, even after his quitting his job, he has given out a homework assignment to someone I think came in new here: https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2012/05/13/foods-injurious-to-a-yogi-or-yogini-12-2/#comment-8992

      I came to Brads blog over 2 years ago and have taken about 6 sessions with him. First off I can say how I was in a very confused state, completely lost in the world of pseudospirituality, fake guru’s, new age nonsense and diet fads when I encountered his blog and he was able to take me out of that.
      I wrote some about it here
      https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2012/07/07/water-in-ayurveda/#comment-8550

      “Everything is just a belief and concepts and peeking from outside the window in, not being inside.
      An this is in everything. This says alot about the world we live in today with youtube and the internet course and everything being as short as possible.”

      These 2 are about the belief vs embodied knowing conundrum:

      https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2012/12/22/hazards-of-meditation/#comment-9170

      https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2015/09/30/the-story-of-the-path/#comment-9361

      And here’s a part I thought was related to these conversations aswell:

      “…All of the above is basically easy to comprehend as general foundation and is simple logic. That is the basics. Then the comprehension of what all of these fundamentals are in detail comes next and how to dance in life rather than be a zombie sheep following in the darkness. There is no magic pill that will make you healthy. Disaster awaits that path. There is no special diet…. as you see from the list above. There is only learning a deep knowledge of what you are, and what is outside of you, and then how all of that fits together to make health. It also makes an experience of life that is a totally different world than being that zombie sheep. All of this and more is Ayurveda. It is complete and timeless. It is the knowledge of life. (and you can find the details of those fundamentals on this blog)”
      https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2019/04/15/do-we-in-the-west-have-any-clue-what-is-healthy-to-eat

      “You could ask and hear from many people here as to their thinking they had known stuff before and how they would share it with others. You can hear from them what they have come to understand what that was with deeper knowledge. I am sure there are plenty that would share their experiences and what they see the results of that being.
      For me, I have been working with people for 30 years, it has been my only profession so understanding the human being and understanding the destruction that happens because of the improper use of little knowledge is pretty clear. Validating people is stroking their ego. Feel good stuff. And add that to little knowledge and you make monsters. Why do that?
      I have commented on it in detail in pointing out the example of yoga teachers only going thru 200 hour courses and then being set free to teach. Teach what? Spread what? And you can simply look out there and see the results. Its business, an industry… nothing else.”

      I used to think I was a yogi because some guy I held high told me so. Finally I was something. Something other than the insecure boy that I was. I shared so so much with everyone. O god, looking back, how pathetic I was. And I don’t say that to belittle myself or make myself feel bad, it’s just an objective fact. I wanted to make the whole world meditate. Or what I thought meditation was at least… sitting quietly with your eyes closed, not trying to do anything. So I shared that with many people. Singing “mantras” or whatever I did. I thought it was fine, because I learnt it from a “yogi”, right? Ahum. As I wrote in one of comment section in one of the above links he turned out to be the a pathological liar. I also started eating a lot of raw food, because Sadhguru Jaggi-man said that was great for you. So I started serving my family that too (and I cooked quite often), while they weren’t into what I was into. Well, except my brother, kinda. I drank my own urine (please don’t judge ;)…), because fake-yogi told me that was good for me. I read some stuff about it which said it was good for pretty much everyone. So if someone would be really really ill I would tell them to do that too. Really crazy.

      https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2016/04/28/svamutra-intake-of-ones-own-urine-some-may-be-disgusted-other-might-just-be-pissed/

      In hindsight, I’m happy I’m not the most charismatic person around so none of them would actually do it. In fact, I don’t think much of anything I shared in that time is being followed through by anyone, but I can’t possibly know for sure, because I couldn’t shut up about all I thought I knew so many have heard the garbage roll out of my mouth. I mean, I knew I wasn’t enlightened, and I surely never stated I was, but I’ve had so many people tell me I was special in one way or another (“You’re a magician” “there’s two types of people in this world. Those who are awake and those who are asleep. And you’re definitely not asleep” “You’re a yogi” “You would never hurt anyone” is some of what different people told me) that I had started to believe it. Just to clarify, I never told them anything about me being special or whatnot, they themselves, without my request, gave me a “spiritual diagnosis”, so to speak, and I loved it. I’ve even had a woman tell me she saw how I went out of my body when I observed a bunch of bees for a while. I did not. Definitely not. And I knew I did not, nor claimed to be, but she did some course in spirituality so she could see that. Yeah right.
      I’ve shared Osho meditations, they’re f*cking crazy. It shared them for free, but I should never have, because 1, they’re crazy and not meditations, and 2, I wasn’t even trained by anyone to teach them. Not even by the Osho cult. I just picked it up from his books and website, downloaded the audio and went for it. I’ll share a link so you can see how crazy, but honestly it’s just bs so it doesn’t matter https://www.osho.com/meditation/active-meditations/dynamic-meditation
      I can even remember I sang “Don’t worry, about a thing… cause..” from Bob Marly to someone who took antidepressants cause I thought it might inspire her, and I talked to her about her antidepressants. I can tell you I don’t know anything about them, but that conversation might’ve been the catalyst for her stopping to take them (even though she denies that, but I’m not convinced), without her parents or doctor knowing about it (I did not tell her to do so, but I have said things I should not have). She was 17 at the time. Brad rightfully called me out on that one asking me “what if she had killed herself?”. As if any of that can be taken lightly. Another friend told me at the time that I should do paid sessions in which I talk and teach about meditation. Not just teaching/sharing the methods, which I allready did, for free, but also about the philosophy and all that. Luckily I had enough of a conscience to see that I didn’t know enough about meditation to do that, and that I would be a farce if I would. I told her that, but she thought I was making things too complicated and that everyone has something to share and blabla. Just like people teaching silent retreats and stuff. I’m happy I never thought I could do that. But still, I was making plans of how to make money off of teaching a meditation technique. I figured if I would just teach simple methods that require not much of philisopical insight it would be ok. I wanted to teach the https://www.osho.com/meditation/active-meditations/whirling-meditation because I thought it didn’t require much insight and it would be merely me facilitating it all by creating the event and hiring a place. Making money and making the world a better place at the same time? What a great idea huh? Yeah right. I did not even have a ridiculous 200 hour teacher training. What right did I have to teach anything? Anyway, in the end I never did it. I have however, in collaboration with Sadhgurus isha Foundation, organized a free “yoga”workshop. Sadhguru told to share some basics with at least 10 people a year to make sure everyone would come into contact with “yoga” and I did not see it for the great free marketing that it was.

      I’m not special. And I’m not a yogi. and I do hurt people, and I am asleep, and I’m not a magician. For 2 years I’ve been wanting to study Ayurveda at BAMS in India. At the beginning I didn’t understand much of Brads blog either. So many sanskrit words, but after a while I saw the same words were coming back many times so I started to understand them. Slowly I started to understand some of the basics. I cooked a lot of the recipes on here, did some sessions and followed his instructions, for the most part. But always I was falling back to eating stuff I shouldn’t eat, like chocolat. Yet chocolat is the worst thing for me to eat, with my doshic imbalance. Brad taught me that, but I don’t follow through. He also recommended me to read some books. I have picked up most all of them, read a few chapters, and then dropped them again. Only one book have I finished, and it was the shortest one. The first book he recommended to me to read was over 2 years ago. Its about 450 pages long. I still haven’t read him from front to back. Brad told me to stay off of youtube, because Ayurveda comes from another paradigm, and Youtube for sure doesn’t propogate that paradigm so I should leave that. I didn’t heed his warning and suprise suprise.. I am still nowhere. Why don’t I follow through with what I believe to be true? Do I think he’s not telling the truth? Ofcourse not. I am very much aware that what I do, and keep doing, is not right. Brad has given me homework assignments, just like you saw was given to Rohith in one of the links above. I have barely done any of them. He told me to study rice.. a year ago maybe? What I’ve done so far about that I posted here: https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2012/02/08/kitchari-an-easy-healthy-dish-to-make-for-any-meal-anytime/#comment-8573

      It might seem like I’ve done a ton, and granted, I’ve spent many many hours on it, but if you realize I barely work and spend much of my time eating crap and watching nonsense Youtube and films and stuff, you can understand how irresponsible I am and unworthy of being taught. Yet, for some reason, in all of Brads kindness, he is still willing to talk to me and read my overdue homework.

      I want to learn. I find all this knowledge utmost intriuging. Yet I am lazy, selfish, full of desire, scattered and undisciplined. I am in a constant split between doing what is right and what fééls right, but clearly isn’t. And every time I stop following what I’ve been taught my health decreases. I get slight headaches, I find it hard to get out of my bed, my right eyelid swells up slightly, etc. etc. It’s obvious to me that I’m not doing what’s right.

      “Pradnyaparadha – Pradnya (jna=dnya) = dhi/intelligence – discernment/discrimination/ability to tell right from wrong – is hing or black pepper good for me? Dhee will decide. + dhriti/willpower/commitment/discipline to do what you have decided is right + smruti/memory/ability to remember that you have made the decision and why. When dhi is not working properly, one can not understand whether thing is good for you or not. Ex. Alcohol, could be used as a diuretic to flush out kidney stones and that is a wrong manner of thought. Assuming bad things are good for them. When dhriti, is doing it even though you know its wrong – not honoring your commitment to not do that. When smriti, if you forget about the things that are bad for the body. When one or all of these parts fall out of alignment, then this is Pradnyaparadha. If one of them is not functioning (bad memory), can cause malfunctioning and can do stupid stuff and experience pradnyaparadha. It is much worse karma than doing something without knowledge at all.”
      https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2014/08/17/the-process-and-factors-of-digestion-part-2/

      People around me think I am judgemental of myself and that I am making things too hard for myself, but I was the one who said I wanted to learn ayurveda. And all those people who think that have one thing in common. They don’t know anything about Ayurveda. Nothing. They don’t understand how you can’t live the life of eating chocolat, staying up late, getting up late, wasting time and at the same time learn Ayurveda. The two are mutually exclusive. Nor do they know me well enough to understand how very lazy I am. I need to be strict with myself. If not I’ll just do nothing and watch movies all day. And that’s exactly what Brad read in my chart..: That it may seem like I’m tough on myself, but that I am not.. but that I am very lazy. I’m not sure if I needed him to tell me that, but it does confirm what I experience myself. I am not too hard on myself. This is what it takes to learn all this. And if I want that, I should follow through.

      These comments are related to learning ayurveda, and they’re bitter.

      https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2019/08/24/indian-astrology/#comment-8359

      https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2019/09/12/rava-coconut-upma/#comment-8515

      https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2014/08/09/doshas-and-the-sub-doshas/#comment-8267

      https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2013/06/25/a-reality-check-for-ayurvedas-viability-in-the-west/#comment-9292

      He also taught me physical exercises for improving my digestion, my posture and more. He taught me a meditation technique and he taught me a technique against teeth grinding. And ofcourse I’ve done all of them. Many times. On and off, on and off, but right now, for quite some time the only thing I do of them is 15 minuts of pranayama a day. That’s it. And even that I skip occasionaly. And please understand I don’t think they’re unimportant, or that I take pride in telling you this. I don’t. I’m ashamed of it and I prefer to tell no one about it. But it is the truth. And I like the truth more than pretending to be something that I’m not. And instead of Brad telling you how his clients don’t follow through, I thought it might be good to hear it from one of his clients himself.

      “What is the use of teaching to people that can never actually grasp what you are teaching because their only paradigm of knowledge will be maintained in what they live/exist in? What is the use of healing people of their disease when they won’t take on what it was that cured them and dig in more and more dueto the very paradigm that they know is the western one of take a pill and everything gets better? Over 30 years I have worked with thousands of people…. none of which took the actual step into anything different than what they already knew and all of them went back to what created their disease in the first place.”

      So even if Brad were willing to do another session with me… all I could discuss with him is “Could you help me understand why the hell am I doing what I am doing?”. But even that subject we may have exhausted allready. For example he told me to ponder on why I eat too much and too often. I barely did and barely do. Why do a session if I don’t follow through with what he teaches?

      And despite that, I think I know myself well enough to state that I will never let go of pursuing to understand Ayurveda. And I can only pray that it is in my chart that I will drop this toxic split of wanting the easy way, eating crap and indulging in entertainment and all that, and at the same time wanting to be a student. I could say that I hope that my behaviour will change, but what is hope other than waiting on a better tommorow that never comes. Hope is never about now. Hope is always about the future, a better future. It creates a forward leaning, future-oriented approach in which there is no presence and thus no taking of responsibility or “ability to respond”. How can there be presence, an experience of being present, if it is covered up by hopes of a better future. How can there be an experience of what happens now if you don’t want to feel what happens now or be in what is now (as if there’s anything else that is real). How is that any different from what Brad once shared with me to ponder upon (which I have done way too little): “You don’t want to be in the place you are in. And you want to be in a place that isn’t. There is nowhere else to be but where you are, experiencing what you are.”

      Or

      “1st step: set aside the wanting things to be different from what they are and something else than what is what you have right now and also walk away from the manifesting your dreams thinking that you are creating your life (because only in your ego your doing that). Isn’t that what the “American Dream” is? (and poisoned the world with?)”
      https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2016/12/26/desire-and-sense-gratification/

      I sometimes wonder if this is just how my whole life is going to play out. Being neither a student nor being part of the herd.

      One way in which this twisted way of being manifests itself is in my work. I have learnt to work with plants over the years and am trying to start a career as a gardener to be able to pay rent and also make some money to do the BAMS course in India. If I wouldn’t be into Ayurveda I would’ve taken a job like for example helping out a fulltime gardener or something, but that’s just not an option in my case. Brad taught me you shouldn’t start doing stuff half an hour after eating, and not do any sports, cycling, or heavy stuff an hour after eating. So including eating itself, lunch-pause will take about 1 hour and 15 minuts. What boss is gonna hire me that way? So I had to start a business on my own. This pause I have to sell to my clients. “I want to garden for you but I will take a 1 hour pause after lunch”. Recently I was told “No, we’re looking for a hard worker.” … as if I don’t work hard because I take care of my digestion… but ofcourse they don’t understand that. It’s foreign to them. You throw in your sandwich with peanut butter and continue lifting heavy loads. Don’t be such a wuss, right? Anyway, some people don’t mind (I mean hey, they don’t have to pay me when Im doing nothing, ofcourse) so even though it’s not an easy road to not work with a full stomach, it’s doable for me. The crazy thing however, is that I put so much effort in all that, explaining them why, getting rejected, etc…. yet there’s times when I have eaten a full meal, and in my desire, an hour or so later, I will eat a snack on top of that, and step on my bicycle with a full stomach. I do só much effort in ordering my life so I can live the way I want…. and then I just screw it up anyway, without any good reason. I didn’t need the snack. It was just me following my tongue, or perhaps my emotions.

      I have many euros worth of ayurvedic medicine laying around unused, because first I have to take away the causative factors of my disease, and only then take medicine. But I do not take responsibility to take away the causative factors. The solution is very simple, but for some reason I don’t go there.

      The longer all of this takes the more I realize this… I never thought I would be of such a low state of mind. I knew I had trouble but I thought with time I could figure them out. That it wasn’t too much of a problem. And you might think none of this applies to you, and… granted… I don’t know you and don’t know if you’re like me… but what I do know is that I am not an exception. And that it is easy to think to be different. One of my friends has been doing sessions with Brad for years and even though we’re very different, we’re pretty much in the exact same situation.

      “In this, I have explained the Western paradigm with all its nuances of distraction and the mind that it creates and that everyone in it has but no one thinks they are that.”

      “Over 30 years I have worked with thousands of people…. none of which took the actual step into anything different than what they already knew and all of them went back to what created their disease in the first place.”

      It’s the age we’re in. And even though that is so, and even though I know it’s in my karma to be lazy, that can’t be taken as an excuse to not do my very best. But I do have to ask myself… am I doing my best?

      In this article Prabhupada says in the future people with the age 20-30 will be considered old age. Just to imagine that us immature millenials would be those of old age. By that time we will have created a world and way of living that is so adharmic and ignorant that we will die that early. And with the crazy way we live I think it is only a matter of time before we realize we’re getting less and less old. And as much as I don’t want to be part of the ignorant people who slowly poison themselves, I have to admit that even though I am looking into ayurva now and then, I am not any different as long as I don’t actually apply my knowledge https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2014/11/30/amazing-predictions-from-the-srimad-bhagavatam/

      And it’s not like I don’t ever cook as “ayurvedically” as I can, but a few hours later I will snack on a chocolat bar and have some storebought bread. There have been times in which I’ve been on it for months. And with on it I mean.. doing a great job and not eating crap and getting up 1,5 our before sunrise etc. etc. but then I fall back into bad habits and I can lose myself in a world of total irresponsibility. Not even doing the duties in my life aside from food and studying, which affects others negatively aswell, like doing chores or cleaning up after myself. And I have told myself many times “I am going to change”. A few months ago I even told my family and friends “I have decided I am going to leave all that bullshit behind me, and actually focus on what I know to be right.”. I even told Brad. some days, a week at most later…. you guess what happened… back to crap.

      So I can’t give you hope nor can I give you advice. Please don’t see this as me trying to teach you. All I can do is share my struggles, as I have, and perhaps that could bring some perspective or addittion to the bigger conversation that has been had here.

      “There is what is called Pakashastra in India. It is the ancient art of cooking. There are very very few ancient texts left on the subject and none of them have been translated into english. The only way to learn the true art of ayurvedic cooking is to live in the culture, in a village, where the elder women still cook this way. There you might learn this ancient art that would be the deep science of cooking.”
      https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2012/02/08/kitchari-an-easy-healthy-dish-to-make-for-any-meal-anytime/

      I can tell you that there’s a lot on this blog. I’m on this blog a lot. And I know I might better spend my time learning sanskrit or read the books Brad recommended me to read, but I find it easy to read his blog. It’s short, often bite-sized and intriguing. And again, I don’t say this with pride. I’m ashamed of the laziness. But I like to think it is better than nothing.

      Maybe the only thing I can give you as an advice is that there’s so much on this blog. I often search on it with the search tool and every time I come across an article I never read or seen before. The downside of the searchtool is that it doesn’t seem to find every correspondent word, nor does it search in the comment sections.. and as you know the comment sections are just as interesting as the articles themselves. I use search engines for that. If you were to type “http://www.trueayurveda.wordpress.com astrology” in google, you might come up with different pages than when you search for the same with the inbuilt search tool of this website. Also using different search engines such as Ecosia will give very different results. When I open the articles I press control-F and then search for the word or article I was looking for. This has been a very handy tool to me that I’ve used a lot. I sometimes want to check back a certain article or comment and I just put in a line or some words that I remember and often I am able to trace it back. If you were to be really interested in learning any of this stuff there’s so much to find on this blog alone, even though it is just the basics and a start.

      Just stuff like this one could spend hours on

      https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2012/02/22/rtucharya-the-6-seasons-and-lifestyle-diet-and-your-yoga-practice/

      https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2012/04/22/qualities-pancamahabhuta-and-vata-pitta-and-kapha/

      https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2014/02/08/great-sentences/

      Anyway, i hope this is helpfull. You didn’t ask for any of this so do whatever you like with it.

      All the best.

      Jesse

  11. Hi Jesse,

    I’m wondering if we were separated at birth, as everything you have told me about yourself is me to the letter. Its the only way I can think of since we obviously have the same chart lmao 🙂

    Jesse, I know you have no problems being honest about yourself, even if it sounds like you are hating on yourself (I am the same way, for me its just about not wanting to ‘set a standard’ that you feel like you have to live up to when people might think that you are something you don’t feel you are). But I really appreciate you sharing so much personal information about yourself just to respond to me! And like I said, the whole time I was reading was like “wow, we are twins” 🙂
    I feel the same as you, Jesse. The laziness, wanting to learn but only wanting ‘pre-digested’ info so I don’t have to do the hard lifting, trying hard to put something into practice only to sabotage myself (lately I have been making ‘Congee’ which is supposed to be very gentle for the digestion, since I decided that I need that. I weigh it to the gram so I know exactly what I have eaten. then later at night i will eat basically a whole loaf of bread with a whole jar of peanut butter and then cereal. wake up feeling like total crap, so double down on the strictness of my ‘diet’ for a day or 2, then binge again)(then theres the guilt that people are starving, while i’m here shovelling more food than my body can even process. such a selfish entitled boy i am), doing good for a bit then throw it all away ‘just because’ Buying so many books only to let them collect dust after reading the first page lol, reading a bit then bugging people with my ‘new knowledge’ about why they shouldn’t be doing this or that (like you, luckily I am so uncharismatic that no one actually listens to things I say lol, because they know i’m just being an armchair expert),
    While I never did sessions with Brad I know I would probably not implement 99% of what he gives me (which is why I put it off for so long because my ‘plan’ was to get in a better position so that i could seamlessly implement the things he says, but that never worked out lol). I have been wanting to meditate for years but kept putting it off because i didn’t know what form to use and i didn’t want to waste my time doing something i thought was good but turns out i’m doing more harm than good, so i can honestly say i have never meditated once in my life lol (i was hoping/coping that my chart would show what form of meditation would be ideal for my disposition, but then again that is just me trying to avoid the hard work of actually picking something and devoting trial and error time to it). Right now i am at a point where I am not sure if i should keep ‘trying’ to implement these things or if i should literally just give up and smoke weed, play video games, and binge eat daily for the rest of this life as its just not ‘in my chart’ to be or do anything more than live a ‘dud’ life (but i keep trying to fight those give up feelings, because i know if i go down that path, that’s it theres no coming back from it). Right now, my latest ‘coping mechanism’ is that If i can save up and buy some land then I can grow ‘real food’ (seasonal and local, including having access to raw milk) then maybe my health will improve enough that i won’t crave the bad habits anymore. But at the same time I am scared that even doing all of that it still won’t help me, that’s what makes me want to give up before i even begin.

    ^I’m just sharing some of my personal struggles, as you shared yours 🙂 (ps. before i even knew about Ayurveda or meditation, I was so egocentric that i was prepared to spend 50k on cosmetic surgery for facial implants due to my insecurities about my physical appearance)

    Oh and i also have about $1k of shilajit sitting under my bed for about a year now lol!

    I agree completely that Brad is not harsh, its just the truth he carries is harsh. I’m usually a pretty sensitive person, and if I hadn’t already read a bunch of Brad’s replies to other people, then I would certainly feel he was harsh on me. But now I know that he is basically holding up a mirror to people and making them take an actual closer look, and maybe to rethink some of the stuff we have blindly attached ourselves to or ignorantly accepted as truth (and then built further concepts upon an already shaky foundation)
    And yes, being that person is not easy as you then become the messenger and are subject to people’s vehement denials (and its easier to direct it externally than to work it thru internally)

    Anyway, I am all typed out for now haha. I just wanted to say thank you for letting me know that I’m not the only one out there struggling with the laziness lol. Thank you for taking the time to write such a lengthy post for my benefit. (and thanks for the tip about searching for blog posts. there have been a few posts i have tried to find again that i couldn’t)

    Good luck with continuing your learning, at least you have taken some steps towards bettering yourself (and yes, i have read many of your comments and saw that you are definitely doing some good effort into learning some of these things). Keep making those small steps, I’m almost finished tying my shoelaces 😉

  12. yeah that was before i found your blog lol. just never bothered to throw it out. I now notice how every shilajit company has the ‘only authentic shilajit’ out there 😉

  13. Hey Grant,

    You’re welcome. Thank you too for your reply and sharing your story. And thank you for understanding my point of view and thanks to Brad for having this blog where these type of things can be shared with people who can actually understand it, which is unlike most people I meet.

    About the twins. That’s funny. The reason why I wrote such an elaborate comment was precisely because of that. Because of the similarities I read in yours ( I’m not into weed or gaming though, so perhaps we’re not really clones after all 😉 ) and thinking it might be interesting to you in one way or another. Great you appreciated reading it. Interesting to read your similar and evenly ridiculous struggle. Funny thing is that the friend whom I mentioned wrote me this recently:

    “Toen ik het zelf las dacht ik ook al Jesse ik doe hetzelfde, toen zag ik dat je even naar mij verwees (als het goed is) en toen de reply daarop van die andere persoon was ook al hetzelfde (tweeling broer) haha ~TRANSLATION~ When I was reading your comment I thought to myself “Jesse, I do the same”, then after that I read you referred to me for a bit, and then the reply from the other person who also does the same (twin brother) haha”

    Needless to say that we shouldn’t take eachother as examples to be followed. Lol.

    I was planning on replying to some other points you brought up too, but so far I haven’t managed to finish them so I’ll post that later.

    Also wanted to share this. I shared this on Facebook the moment I realized I was wrong. After speaking with Brad. This is over 2 years ago. I wrote it in 3 languages because I had been sharing in 3 languages. I’ll just post the english here. Hope it isn’t too much.

    ______________________

    Dear people, beste vrienden, queridos amigos,

    I owe you my apologies for any knowledge or practice shared. I am uneducated and have only my own bias to share.

    My apology is for any advice or sharing of “spiritual”, political, nutrition, health and environmental messages, either on the digital media or in real life. I don’t know anything. I have no authority. I would tell you to take it with a grain of salt, but a grain of salt might actually have more value than all I have shared.

    I was a parrot echoing the words of false guru’s and teachers, spreading their “teachings” and “meditation practices” of which I now fear can do (nothing but?) harm. Excuse me if I have inspired you with these borrowed ideas or/and so called “meditation” practices. Who am I to share anything labeled as “meditation” if I don’t know, without doubt, what true meditation is? And perhaps even worse, these practices shared are from people accused from all sorts of nasty things from spreading misinformation, substance addiction, having sex with many followers, violence to outright murder.. is this the behaviour of a Yogi or “enlightened being”?

    I myself have stopped any “meditation” or “yoga” practice I have ever done in the past. If you are sharing or following any of the things I have shared in the past; please do understand I have turned away from them and realise you do this on your own accord and take the full responsibility for them.. aswell as their consequences. The same goes for the other areas as described above.

    I have been delusional; please do excuse me.

    Kind regards, vriendelijke groeten, saludos sinceros,

    Jesse

    I want to add to that, to clarify, that I do not dismiss Hinduism or Bhuddism or any of the real Spiritual Traditions out there. However, with the discernment I have at this moment I have to conclude that most, if not all I was following and sharing was not any of that.

    [then some reactions… I removed their names and replaced them with letters. Take notion of the letters though, because it is not a one on one conversation. Also, don’t be judgy on some (or mine, ahum) some of their spelling and english since some of them are latinos not living in the west:]

    A: Including the Osho active meditation? I haven’t practiced it since but I was really moved by it.. what happened, what did you find out?

    Me: Well, he is a liar, says contradicting things (like really), is said to have slept with 100s of women followers (I don’t know if you can find this anywhere but they say he actually bragged about this himself).. is said to have been violent. There is a documentary on him “wild wild country” where people have given up much if not everything to be with him. He then goes in to silence for a long time… and they’re there just for him. Then he leaves the ashram in India without saying anything to anyone and they move to America. His remarks on rape are… interesting to say the least. He is said to use valium. Ah and he had many many rolls royses.

    Ok.. even if you can excuse all this we must not forget he actually said he was an enlightened being. “You are asleep and I am awake”. Ofcourse it is easy to excuse that “it was all his divine plan to break through the stuck social norms with all this controversie”, but.. in that case anyone can claim to be an enlightened one. Well then I am an enlightened being too, just inspriring you by being a very average human being.. to inspire you that there is no need to be special.. you are good the way you are… really!? The man was, as far as I am concerned, nothing but a rich conman who had a lot of sex, did whatever he wanted, confused a lot of people (including me), drugged himself and enjoyed to be worshipped… that and he was pretty smart.

    Y: Everyone is human even Osho. He openly bragged about being a playboy and showed off all his cars. The problem is when you confuse being spiritual with all of our judeo-christian moralism and yogic teaching from antiquity that respesent monk life in a age far less materialistic and therefore incompatible with ours. The main message from Osho is to accept yourself and to be authentic to who you are.

    Me: I don’t confuse anything with spirituality. I simply don’t know what that word really means. So in a way I wouldn’t know at all how to recognize a “spiritual being”. However with my earthly common sense and a bit of investigation I know I have made up my mind about this man. Not saying he was pure evil or anything, but I highly doubt he deserves all the praise and status around him. If you choose to be inspired by him it is up to you. But not me. Much love, Jesse

    C: I understand that part of the community business was buying up old royces, fixing them up and selling them. Osho was definitely well loved by his followers I’ve talked to. and he was often really funny and insightful. He was a rebel

    Me: Well he can keep his Rols Royses then, that is the least of my concerns ;). After everything I have heard and read about the man I can simply not take him for an “enlightened being”. Rather the opposite. However funny, smart, charismatic and loved he was. I will not take any of his words as guidance nor will open my mind for him to influence and enter my psychological life. Thank you, but I pass.

    Another dialog:

    K: now I understand why im feeling so bad, and I have been in only 2 meditation sessions aaaghhh… mmmm you worm from the worst spiece! jajjajajajajajshkhd my dear Jesse you where really helpfull with or without any practice maditation or any kind of spiritual belief… thank you for share those beatifull moments spendid in wisdom forest please take the good part of it, you inspired many people to get into somthing that is really helpfull, dispite of this particular practice so this is a good point. and I apreciate your concern about the relevance of this issue. I still know you like a really kind and venebolance guy, thamks for been such a pertner. I hope you are fine and wish you gratitud and kindness, you bloody fake guru!!!

    Me: Hahaha thank you for your great message. as well as your humour in general and honesty.

    Also thank you for your kind words. However I want to ask you what do you mean “you inspired many people into something that is really helpfull”. Are you referring to meditation? I regret having shared any type of information about any “meditation” or philosophie, because I simply doubt their sources and the (perhaps adverse) effects of these practices.

    Hope you are well too and will be able to shake out those 2 meditations out of your system haha!

    K: I did know in Wisdom forest that this osho monk or leader was a full of shit, thats why I went a few times… but you seemed so inspired that I never even thougt about discuss any of my ideas with you… and i do really think that meditation as tool is helpfull, to makes us calm and focused any way it has its own benefits until the backround spiritual beliefs, this is why Im refering “you inspired many people into something that is really helpfull”. So welcome to the deception of life twist, I wish you a deep fall, and a great belief bilding again. thats what many of us did or do.I read a few messenjers in this post and most of it are gracefull and full of kindness by the way you get to everyone. you can read in many ways but I read, most of it, good things about you. so for me thats something better than a false source of wisdom. love you man!

    Another:

    R: Si hay algo que me enseñaste es a estar mejor espiritualmente a amar la naturaleza y mas aun la vida y cada ser vivo existente por mas que fuera algo extraño ~ If anything you have taught me to be better spiritually, to love nature and even more life and every living being, despite of it being a bit odd [I think “it” refers to “my way of teaching” or “what I taught”.]

    Another:

    N: Well, this is a really interesting post to be tagged, thanks for that Jesse.

    I guess I have a relative idea of where this message is coming from. You follow a certain amount of ideas, behaviours and values from some guys, only to evolve delusional about their contradictions, hipocresy or even worst. I believe it happens to everybody, through very different stages and people.

    I remember how shocked I was when I first found out the controversial sides of Jack London, particularly the discussions about whether he was a racist or not. I couldn´t believe it! How the hell a guy who wrote such incredible stories sorounding colonialism and the cruelty of the white man could be a racist?

    How naif I felt for a while! But eventually, and going deeper on this and other matters, I could realize that everybody is contradictory. It´s in the nature of the human kind. The way to deal with it I chose is to take what is there to take, appreciate it, discuss what is there to discuss and give what is genuine to give, understanding that nobody really has THE truth.

    You are a pretty determined guy, a quality that impressed me from you, specially for the fact that you were quite young the times we met. At those times, I saw a guy who was walking a road, the road of consciense and spirituality, the road of searching, specially inside.

    Now, walking through that road, you probably felt that you found a few guides and teachers to go deeper in that road. Some guys that helped you understand things better and you picked from them a few things to share around you. Until recently, acording to what I understand of this post, you found out they were big time liers and hipocrits, most of them probably doing some bussiness -or worst things- using spirituality and meditation.

    Well, men, nobody could judge you for this. We could never really know what is truly right or wrong, specially regarding fellow humans. And I´ve never felt that you were trying to kind of impose some big truth.

    Actually, it´s exactly the other way around. I´ve always felt that you just were communicating from your heart. And I think that you were behaving acording to your heart when you were spreading that word in which you no longer believe, or just now, with this cool, introspective and honest message.

    And I guess that´s the best we are able to do. Speak and behave as our hearts tell us.

    This is quite old story, from the oral tradition of the west of Mexico, that somebody told me in Chiapas. Eventualy I tried my best to write down, put it a title and published it. It might be useful in what it seams to be some sort of crossroads for you https://ficcionesppff.wordpress.com/…/el-escondite-de…/

    Look, the way I see it, when you meet (cool) people there´s always something to listen and to understand and sometimes even to admire and to aknowledge. But it´s never good to put nobody to high. They will eventually fall… on us! I don´t really believe in influence or truth, probably neither in pure wisdom. But I do believe in generating new questions, in exchange of energies and I particularly believe in inspiration,

    And whether you were completly right or completly wrong, that´s what I´ve always taken from you. Inspiration, big time inspiration to walk some very interesting -and I would even say important- roads.

    Nobody has the ultimate truth about yoga or meditation or anything related to the spiritual side of life. The best you can do is keep searching for it, outside, but specially inside.

    Good life, my man!

    Me: “You follow a certain amount of ideas, behaviours and values from some guys, only to evolve delusional about their contradictions, hipocresy or even worst” That is exactly it. and for sure worse than contradictions and hypocricy. Thank you N, for your kind words and for the nice little story. I liked it.

    ______________________

    Those were some of the comments. Long story short, they’re nice to me, some very sweet, and even though some good points are there, I disagree with every single one of them on at least on one point. The reason that I share it here is that it was interesting to me that I apologized for having shared my biases, and their reaction to me was them sharing their biases and also telling me that what I did was no problem. To get that reaction was never my intention behind the sharing ofcourse, and I think it relates to our tendency of blowing smoke up peoples asses. It also shows how my message was not understood, which I understand, because I wouldn’t have either without Brad holding up a mirror and pointing towards some obvious facts. So again. its nice that I’m actually being understood here.

    And then compare those comments to this, lol:

    “Validating people is stroking their ego. Feel good stuff. And add that to little knowledge and you make monsters.”
    https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2020/02/11/how-i-was-misdiagnosed-mistreated-at-the-arya-vidya-chikitsalayam-avp-hospital-in-coimbatore-this-is-ayurveda-today-beware/#comment-9494

    “Lets start with this all over again. Why is it that people are so drawn to calling themselves yogis? What does it mean? Today it is attachment and identification. Look at me, look at me! I am a yogi! Look how spiritual I am! Look how inspirational to others i am!!! I am a good person and I can teach you to be spiritual too!!!!!

    What does it take to become a yoga teacher? $3500 minimum and 8 weekend classes to equal 200 hours. No prior education nor experience nor does it take any moral abiding or ethical standing. Hmmmm? Then after that you are a teacher? How can one teach something they have never experienced?”
    https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2015/12/01/brahmacharya-why-we-are-not-really-experiencing-or-practicing-yoga-part-2/

    https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2020/02/11/how-i-was-misdiagnosed-mistreated-at-the-arya-vidya-chikitsalayam-avp-hospital-in-coimbatore-this-is-ayurveda-today-beware/#comment-9494

    On the searching on the web…

    Last thing is that I noticed that it is actually https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com. So without the www.

    Also using just “trueayurveda” instead of the whole hyperlink will also give different results. Aswell as “trueayurveda.wordpress.com” without the “https://”

    Good luck ;P.

    Did you read this one? I did not come across it only untill after 2 years of moving through this blog:
    “…a clip from a book that ever seeker needs to read and take a good look in the mirror afterwards.”
    https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2013/11/28/the-culture-of-the-modern-seeker/

    Wishing you succes with your shoelaces. Mine have come and have been untied for quite some time, but ever since I wrote my first comment to you, things are going slowly uphill for me again.

    Kind regards

    Your idiot brother

    • Hi Grant,

      I have been writing this super long comment, but I started to doubt if I was staying close to myself and that perhaps it was more of a personal study than something to share, so I decided to not send it and that it would be better if I would keep it to the point and personal. Maybe I’ll change my mind, but proparbly not. Anyway, this will save you and Brad from a lot of reading 😉 :

      “Jesse, I know you have no problems being honest about yourself, even if it sounds like you are hating on yourself (I am the same way, for me its just about not wanting to ‘set a standard’ that you feel like you have to live up to when people might think that you are something you don’t feel you are).”

      Actually I doubt if I’m really all that honest. If you, or anyone, were to drop your wallet or Iphone 14, I would pick it up and give it back to you. Also everyone that is close to me knows I’m wrestling with all of these things, because indeed I want to be open about it. So in that sense I might be honest. However. I live at my parents house and the reason they let me live there at my age is because they want to support me in my studying. They know I struggle with the studying and how I don’t follow through with my diet and stuff and how I give into temptations that I actually don’t want to such as watching movies. But… they don’t know hów bad it actually is. Every time I heard them approach my room and I was watching a film or whatever I would change my laptop-screen to something like for example my e-mail, hiding my guilty pleasure, making them think I was doing something productive, or at least not doing something as meaningless as watching a movie. That is not honesty. I could write more, but honestly, I don’t have much clarity on this. Actually I don’t have clarity on a lot of things.

      “lately I have been making ‘Congee’ which is supposed to be very gentle for the digestion, since I decided that I need that. I weigh it to the gram so I know exactly what I have eaten. then later at night i will eat basically a whole loaf of bread with a whole jar of peanut butter and then cereal.”

      I remember back in the days when I followed all these fake gurus I would have days in which I would eat nothing at all (because I thought that was a good thing to do once in a while) and then tell myself I would break the fast with light food, but it happened many times I couldn’t resist to eat more than just the light food. Bouncing back and forth between extremes, I know about it. allthough I doubt wether I would even be able to put all this in my body without having to puke “…basically a whole loaf of bread with a whole jar of peanut butter and then cereal.”

      “(which is why I put it off for so long because my ‘plan’ was to get in a better position so that i could seamlessly implement the things he says, but that never worked out lol).”

      You could read these old posts of mine and laugh at my naivity:
      “Allright, I have requested my divorce with the internet. I think it can do without me ;).” https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2019/05/04/diet-for-early-summer/#comment-7584

      “I have been wanting to meditate for years but kept putting it off because i didn’t know what form to use and i didn’t want to waste my time doing something i thought was good but turns out i’m doing more harm than good, so i can honestly say i have never meditated once in my life lol”

      There’s several on here. You know that right? One technique is elaborately described in an article and some others (or at least one, lol) are mentioned briefly in some other articles. I have tried the one with the spinal breathing, but I was never able to concentrate for long. But since we’re not the same person, maybe you have better “luck” with it. I have never really meditated in my life either. I have tried two techniques, but never truly meditated (whatever that is). And also a lot of sitting with my eyes closed before those, which isn’t meditation either.

      “^I’m just sharing some of my personal struggles, as you shared yours 🙂 :”

      Thanks

      “Anyway, I am all typed out for now haha. I just wanted to say thank you for letting me know that I’m not the only one out there struggling with the laziness lol. Thank you for taking the time to write such a lengthy post for my benefit. (and thanks for the tip about searching for blog posts. there have been a few posts i have tried to find again that i couldn’t)”

      You’re welcome

      “Good luck with continuing your learning, at least you have taken some steps towards bettering yourself (and yes, i have read many of your comments and saw that you are definitely doing some good effort into learning some of these things). Keep making those small steps, I’m almost finished tying my shoelaces”

      Thanks. I have spent many hours in learning the basics of Ayurveda. I have studied physics, chemistry and biology on secondary school level just to be able to go to BAMS. But still I’m not sure if I can really say I have taken a real step. In a way, every step I have taken I have thrown away after some time. Getting up before the sunrise is a first step. I am slowly working towards that now again, but I haven’t been there for quite some time now. I wonder if to take real first step is to do so without ever stepping back.

      During one session Brad read in my chart that I “prefer to play than to actually do the work”. Recently I realized that 8 years ago, when I studied Audiovisual Media for a year, I LITERALLY put this into a video (at 1:43 and 9:42). That way before I was into any of this stuff. The video used to be an interactive one where you the viewer, could choose between 2 options several times. The right or the wrong choice and suffer the consequences. However Youtube took away the button function so now it’s just a lenghty and weird video. However if you would scroll through it you would see how the young man is moving into a new house and he’s lazy and doesn’t look forward to unboxing the boxes. However you can choose to do it anyway, to focus and get your house/room nice and tidy. But if you don’t the boxes will just add up and it will become this overwhelming thing, your life a mess of fearfull escapism. A self-made prison (7:46). The ones where you choose to do the right thing are bit overdone and romantisized though. Just FYI, I’m the guy in the video with the crown, carrying the plastic arm. The execution of it all could’ve been better but… I guess I started too late for that, ahum. I thought it was interesting to see how, allthough in a different way, I was having a similar kind of struggle so many years ago.

      Best wishes,

      Jesse

  14. Hi Jesse,

    Thanks for posting, I have not actually read it just yet. I’m just letting you know that I am not ignoring you! I saw it posted a few days ago and was planning on reading sometime (I usually have to build myself upto reading long posts as i’m not actually very good at reading. its funny because I struggle reading long posts, but I go and make them myself lol), but…

    … The other day I actually was admitted to hospital after a massive binge eat (yes i’m serious). Basically I ate so much that my stomach was so swollen that it compressed on all the other organs and prevented itself from emptying and the pressure just kept building up and up.

    Thankfully I was able to vomit 7 times through out the day to relieve the building pressure, but I ended up getting a tube inserted in my nose and into my stomach where the surgeon (who looked at my xray and said that my stomach was absolutely massive, and also said surgery was a 50/50) ended up aspirating about 1850ml of liquid from my stomach (i’m pretty sure that I vomited all up around 1200ml of liquid even before getting it aspirated).

    The surgeon (who is literally a gastric surgeon for a living) was legitimately surprised at how much he took out of me.

    If you want to read the full story, I made a reddit post on the binge eating forum for them to read: https://old.reddit.com/r/BingeEatingDisorder/comments/fya842/just_got_the_biggest_wakeup_call_of_my_life_a/

    Needless to say, Jesse and Brad that this was my lowest point I have ever reached and I can’t believe I actually did that to myself. and the only explanation I have was “I was bored at night”. how nice Is that, what a complicated guy I am lol (severe sarcasm)

    Jesse, I promise to read your posts as soon as I feel able upto it (its more to do with that i’m not good at reading, I always have to re-read stuff I just went over, and have to keep re-reading as i’m making a reply to make sure I have read it in the right context so what i’m writing is actually making sense and isn’t actually some weird off topic ramblims lol)

    Brad, I was wondering. because this ordeal was quite the motivator for me to actually stop spinning my wheels and actually seek some advise. Would you be willing to do my chart for me? (obviously I am paying the proper service fee) I don’t know if i’m being stupid or what, but I think if I can have access to what you can tell me about myself (since I obviously don’t know anything about myself, that is how dull I am) it might help me able to actually implement some changes that I need (like if it can show what health problems I should focus on avoiding, as well as how my mind works which might make it easier to know how to begin meditation. I really don’t like asking for stuff like this because I don’t like to bother, but I think after this, I just have to man up and ask). If its alright, then you can let me know if its ok and I can email you as instructed on your services page, but if not that’s fine too (like I said, I don’t even REALLY know what I expect to result from doing this. I’m basically just being a consumer so I really don’t deserve any special treatment at all)

    Talk later!

    • Hi Grant. Thanks for sharing all of that and best wishes for getting back to health.
      Fortunately or not, I have quit all these practices after 30 years. Everything I have has no context for this world as it is. I could go into explanation and details with thousands of experiences behind them but that’s useless. I said about 15 years ago that I am likened to a medic in world war 1. I patch up the boys to send them back out to the front line or I send them home in a body bag and neither of those are actually dealing with the problem at all.. the war.
      So after thirty years of teaching, healing, etc… and with the ongoing experience of there being no context except take a pill and go back to what created the entire disorder in the first place… I am done.
      The only thing left is this blog which you can see from the entrees that I am not actually creating posts anymore.

    • Hi Grant,

      I just read your comment and the Reddit-post and I also want to thank you for sharing all that you have shared and wish you the best in getting back to health.

      The reason I shared my previous comments is because Brad said “You could ask and hear from many people here as to their thinking they had known stuff before and how they would share it with others.”

      But since have never actually asked that… I took it upon myself to share… so I just want to tell you that you don’t owe me a thing and it’s really up to you if you want to read any of my comments to you or not and wether you want to reply to them or not.

      Best wishes,

      Jesse

    • Just looked up some stuff that popped into my head and thought I might share it.

      “The modern world emphasizes removing repression but it does not speak against the dangers of over indulgence. In fact, in its lack of knowledge, the culture of America today emphasizes it subconsciously as well as consciously. We see this in the marketing as well as the media. A toxic body creates wrong urges that indulgence only reinforces. This creates addictions and other mental disorders.”
      https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2016/03/24/the-cause-of-disease/

      Here one of the members of the pop band AJR about the song “Weak”:

      “We had a very interesting process for that song. For this EP, we were thinking, ‘What’s something that no one has ever said in music before?’ We hear so many songs on the radio about being confident, and how confident I am, and how happy I am, but sometimes that’s just not very true. Sometimes we’re weak people and we give into temptation, and what’s wrong with that? Maybe it’s a good thing at times. So, we thought we’d write a song about that, and it seems like people are connecting to it.”

      Someone reacted to that, and allthough it might be a bit fiery, I think he’s right that we shouldn’t normalize being weak-minded:

      “”I’m weak, whats wrong with that?.” Legitimately everything. Do your damn best to not be weak you prick and stop complaining. A bunch of grown ass men acting like teenage sops.”

      But this one is a step up from that. Honestly, I think this advertisement is a crime. And perhaps that’s the whole point… shock value to get attention for your product. And who knows, maybe it’s not even shocking at all in our anti religious world. Maybe we think it is cool now to be lazy and to screw up.

      I think the small letters say “‘Sin’ & wear the consequences. Greedily collect 7 branded sticks for an amazingly cool “Sin Shirt”. The video’s are also extremely disturbing:

      Really, why is this junk allowed to be out there in public when it’s so obviously degrading? It’s like they’re acting like kids who have been raised as christians and then and rebel as a teenager cause they “hate their parents” and start looking into everything that was looked upon as not ok when you grew up. Yeah, isn’t it the coolest thing to be puking around cause you drank too much beer (that was me several times, years ago). Or, I had friends like that who during their teenage years burned a bible or two. Idiots. Sure, burn them, cause Netflix and beer is much better.

      And to then put this in perspective with Grants story above…

      Funny thing is that the notion of sin is nowadays seen as religious dogmatism and something that limits our individual choice to live life the way we want to, yet in my experience my desires of giving into those things are exactly that which limit me to pursue what I want. You once said that in having a focus, you’re free from all the rest.. the distractions and desires, etc. Yet we want all choices available and in turn be consumed by them. America, land of the free.. or land of slaves of the senses? And you guys think you put an end to slavery ;P. The western world has an obesity epidemic? Gosh, I wonder where that comes from (sarcasm). But sure….. our incapability of following through with anything dharmic has nothing to do with the state of our modern minds…. nah, the strictness is the problem…. right.

      Have we lost our minds?….

      …”Everybody just have a good time
      (I can feel it baby!)
      And we gon’ make you lose your mind”

      This song’s videoclip has 1,8 billion (yes billion) views on Youtube. The rest of the lyrics goes something like this:

      “Booty, hoes” “Where the drank? I gots to know”.

      Or this classic, which is far less obvious, but still, if you think about it…
      “I want to wake up, in a city, that never sleeps” Why the hell would you want to wake up in a city that never sleeps? You mean the same place where some need to use sleeping pills to get to sleep? Isn’t it a good thing if a place is quiet at night? Isn’t the night time supposed to be sleepy time?

      And these are tótally on-point aswell. The first one is a shorty 😉 :

      https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2017/10/19/the-non-entity-of-the-mind/

      https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2014/12/16/all-spiritual-look-at-materialworldly-pleasures/

    • That magnum advertisement is from 2002.

      You once shared this:

      “What is morality?

      The dictionary states…
      1. conformity to the rules of right conduct; moral or virtuous conduct.
      2. moral quality or character.
      3. virtue in sexual matters; chastity.
      4. a doctrine or system of morals.
      5. moral instruction; a moral lesson, precept, discourse, or utterance.

      I would have to point out that all of this then leads to a foundation of religion. Hmmm. Since the modern/western world has more or less an anti religious sentiment going on (or what they are calling a spiritual movement), what does that leave? Morality is then only based in ones own bias of subjectivity of their experience (which is only really self absorption). Because one’s own individual rights are more important than the right code of conduct for humanity?

      It is all pretty interesting to behold when looked at from a wider lens.

      Morality without religion is a tree without roots — George Bernard Shaw”
      https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2012/10/17/concept-of-diet-in-ayurveda-heres-the-meat-and-bones-of-it/#comment-3257

      Some articles on sin:

      “Suta Gosvami said, “The best of sages, Sri Narada, understood the reason in a moment and said, ‘O beautiful lady, hear attentively from me. Because of this ruthless age (Kali-yuga), good behaviour, yoga, and austerities have all become lost. People are addicted to cheating, irreligious behaviour, and are like the demon Agha, sin personified. At present, saintly people are unhappy and demonic people are enjoying sense gratification.”
      https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2015/03/31/kali-yuga/

      “Why we give Daana?

      If actions of individuals and nations were motivated by the instinct of charity, the problems of poverty and starvation could be significantly alleviated. Forms of charity such as Meals on Wheels, planting of trees, and provision of food, clothing and medicines to refugees are all relevant in modern times. Charity basically means sharing what God has given us with all of God’s creatures. According to the Bhagavad-Gita Chapter 3.12, one who takes from the society and does not give back to those in need is a thief.

      What more is that this speaks to true spirituality. When one lives with more than one needs, they are but a thief or living in sin for what does one really need? This is true spirituality. What you come into this life with and what you leave this life with is the same, just your soul. A spiritual life is actually a very lonely life as it is just you and god. If someone lives with more than what is truly needed it is just sin for use of nomenclature. A sannyasin lives only with god. This life is truly unbelievable much less not liveable in the United States the land of materialism.

      Somewhere inside we all know this and it is a very painful place. We all have responsibilities that we have created and agreed to in this material world we live in. To live in truth of this sin and in truth with god of this sin is the only solution to this. [“A man becomes a householder the moment he is born.” https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2012/04/18/nivritti-marga-the-internal-path/ I think this relates to the christian notion that we are born sinners. This in itself may seem unfair to some, but if you take in account karma and the fact that we are (re)born into this body due to our desires, it makes sense. And so, all this begs the question, how does one live in truth with God of ones sins. Especially if God is only a belief to you.]

      So daana is really only to relieve oneself of one’s own weight and burden of their sin. To make oneself feel better about their sin. Truly anyone accepting donation is doing a favor to the donator, not the other way around. This is why it feels good to donate.

      Swami Vivekananda says the donor that we must feel grateful that someone is giving us the opportunity to share our knowledge or resources; it is the donor who benefits from the act of giving; not the recipient. The donor must look upon the recipient as God himself in human form and perform charity with great humility.”
      https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2013/08/30/daana-or-donation/

      “A man becomes a householder the moment he is born. It is by Sangskara that he enters upon any of the other stages of life. For this reason, O Great Queen! One should first be a householder, following the rules of that mode of life (14). When, however, one is freed of worldly desires by the knowledge of the Real, it is then that one should abandon all and seek refuge in the life of an ascetic (15). In childhood one should acquire knowledge; in youth, wealth and wife. The wise man in middle age will devote himself to acts of religion, and in his old age he should retire from the world (16).

      No one should retire from the world who has an old father or mother, a devoted and chaste wife, or young and helpless children (17). He who becomes an ascetic, leaving mothers, fathers, infant children, wives, agnates and cognates, is guilty of a great sin (18). He who becomes a mendicant without first satisfying the need of his own parents and relatives is guilty of the sins of killing his father and mother, a woman, and a Brahmana (19). The Brahmanas and men of other castes should perform their respective purificatory rites according to the ordinances laid down by Shiva. This is the rule in the Kali Age (20).

      Shri Devi said:

      O Omnipresent One! tell Me what is the rule of life for the householder and mendicant, and what are the purificatory rites for the Vipras and other castes (21)…”
      https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2012/04/18/nivritti-marga-the-internal-path/

      “5. Placing the two heels over the two opposite thighs (respectively) is the Padma (posture) which is the destroyer of all sins
      •padmasana is the destroyer of all sins. Why? Think about it.”
      https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2013/09/26/want-a-little-real-yoga

      What I found so far on Kali Yuga:

      https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2015/04/01/kali-yuga-q-and-a/

      https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2015/03/31/kali-yuga/

      https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2017/06/20/parasharasmriti/

      https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2014/11/28/harivamsha-maha-purana-chpt-3-3-vedavyasa-predicts-life-in-kaliyuga/

      https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2014/11/30/amazing-predictions-from-the-srimad-bhagavatam/

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